How to Homeschool: A Step-by-Step Guide with Kristi Clover

In a world where the “traditional” educational model has devolved to the point of abject danger and degeneracy, millions of families are seeking alternatives and homeschooling has reemerged as the gold-standard in education. In the latest episode of the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, host Yvette Hampton sat down with homeschooling expert, author, and speaker Kristi Clover to delve into the ins and outs of homeschooling. With valuable insights and practical tips, Kristi empowers parents to embark on this impactful journey. Let’s explore some key takeaways from this illuminating conversation.

For more on this topic, make sure you download our free Homeschool Survival Kit. This 70+ page eBook walks you through every step, from just getting started to graduating your last child with confidence.

“The first thing you need to do is establish your purpose. Figure out why you’re homeschooling, what your goals are, and what you’re trying to accomplish.”

Kristi Clover

Establishing Purpose and Motivation:

Kristi emphasizes the importance of knowing the “why” behind homeschooling. She guides parents to solidify their purpose as the foundation for their homeschooling journey. As she explains, “The first thing you need to do is establish your purpose. Figure out why you’re homeschooling, what your goals are, and what you’re trying to accomplish.” This clarity enables parents to navigate challenges with determination and resilience – even when you experience the inevitable setbacks associated with parenting and teaching your kids at home.

Embracing Flexibility and Personalized Learning:

One of the primary advantages of homeschooling is the ability to tailor education to each child’s unique needs and interests. Kristi emphasizes the importance of incorporating children’s passions into the curriculum, stating, “Find out what subjects and activities really inspire your children… Let them dig deep into those interests.” By doing so, parents tap into their children’s natural curiosity, encouraging enthusiasm for learning and empowering them to become experts in their chosen fields.

Creating a Customized Homeschool Experience:

Homeschooling need not follow a rigid, conventional model. Kristi encourages parents to design their own homeschool experience, emphasizing that it doesn’t have to (and shouldn’t) replicate the public school system. She states, “You don’t have to re-create a mini public school in your home. You can really tailor it to your own family and your own goals.” This flexibility allows parents to develop a curriculum that aligns with their family’s values and creates an inspiring learning environment.

Prioritizing Discipleship:

For Kristi, homeschooling extends beyond academics. It is an opportunity for parents to disciple their children’s hearts and instill a Christian worldview. “Whoever spends the most time with the children is the one truly parenting and discipling them,” she asserts. Homeschooling allows parents to prioritize character development, Biblical values, and Christ-centered teaching while providing a high-quality education.

Seeking Support and Resources:

Homeschooling can be an enriching and rewarding journey, but it also comes with challenges. Kristi emphasizes the value of seeking support from the homeschool community and attending conventions to connect with like-minded individuals and gather valuable resources. She also recommends the Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) as a crucial resource for legal support.

Adapting Curriculum to Suit Learning Styles:

Another crucial aspect of homeschooling is tailoring the curriculum to meet the unique needs and learning styles of children. Kristi encourages parents to evaluate themselves as teachers and create a curriculum that aligns with their children’s learning preferences. She remarks, “As I observed my children, I paid attention to their tactile and visual learning preferences, and adapted our curriculum accordingly.” Kristi shares her experience of initially using a hands-on curriculum for her two close-aged children and then transitioning to more video-based learning materials as her family grew.

Organizing with the Crate System:

One of the key highlights of the podcast is Kristi’s discussion on the crate system, an effective method she uses to organize homeschool materials. Kristi explains how this system promotes independence and provides a manageable view of the week’s workload for students. She shares, “The crate system allows you to put homeschooling on autopilot. It helps you navigate emergencies or personal situations with ease.” Kristi has expanded on the crate system and other helpful tips for homeschool organization in her book, M.O.M. – Master Organizer of Mayhem.

Finding Success in Homeschooling:

While homeschooling can feel overwhelming at times, Kristi encourages parents to remember that it is a calling and a journey of faith. She compares homeschooling to a scene from an Indiana Jones movie, where taking a step of faith leads to finding solid ground. Kristi advises, “Keep your faith in Christ at the center of your homeschooling journey. There may be hard days and challenges, but it is all worth it in the end.”

More on this subject: How to Homeschool: My Original Roadmap

Conclusion:

In this series, Kristi Clover provides parents with a wealth of insights and guidance on how to embark on a successful homeschooling journey. By uncovering the “why” behind homeschooling, embracing flexibility, and prioritizing discipleship, parents can empower themselves to create a tailor-made educational experience for their children. With determination, resourcefulness, and a supportive network, homeschooling families can embrace the incredible opportunity to shape their children’s hearts and minds.

“Teaching children to love the Lord with their whole being is challenging, but my hope is that my actions and life will have a stronger impact on their learning than any curriculum.” Homeschooling is not just about academics—it’s about creating an atmosphere of love, care, and growth within the family.

Recommended Resources: 

Free Homeschool Survival Kit 

“How to Homeschool” the original document that my friend, Holly Learner gave me as a roadmap for homeschooling.

Homeschool Basics: How to Get Started, Keep Motivated, and Bring Out the Best in Your Kids, by Kristi Clover

M.O.M. – Master Organizer of Mayhem, by Kristi Clover

More from Kristi Clover on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Education: The Key to Saving Our Nation – Alex Newman on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Getting Started in Homeschooling – Israel Wayne on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast 

🍿🍿🍿 Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for FREE today!

❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Are you in need of a fresh vision for your homeschool? Join us for 4 days of Homeschool Encouragement at the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. Use the coupon code PODCAST to save 25% on registration today! 

Discussion Questions:

1. In what ways can homeschooling provide flexibility and fewer restrictions, as compared to traditional schooling?

2. What are Kristi and Yvette’s primary goals for homeschooling and why are they important? How do they align with your goals?

3. How does Kristi approach the idea of children making their own choices regarding faith, and what is the role of the parent in this process?

4. What are some alternative teaching methods mentioned in the episode, and how can they be implemented in homeschooling?

5. What are some potential benefits and challenges of homeschooling, and how can parents address the challenges and maximize the benefits?

6. Have you ever tried organizing your homeschool materials using a crate system or any other system? What worked well for you and what challenges did you face?

7. How do you prioritize and choose curriculum materials for your homeschool? Do you follow a specific approach, such as Charlotte Mason or unit studies, or do you customize your curriculum based on your child’s needs?

8. What are some practical ways you incorporate character development into your homeschooling? Have you found any resources or methods particularly helpful in teaching character traits?

9. How do you handle the pressure to create a perfect homeschool image on social media platforms like Pinterest and Instagram? Have you ever felt overwhelmed or discouraged seeing other homeschooling families’ seemingly perfect setups?

10. Have you ever tried incorporating video-based learning materials, such as the ones recommended by the speaker? How has it impacted your teaching and your child’s learning experience?

11. How do you adapt your homeschooling approach as your family grows and the needs of your children change? Have you found any specific strategies or methods helpful in teaching different grade levels simultaneously?

12. How do you handle the challenges of teaching children who may have different learning styles or preferences? Do you customize their curriculum or adjust your teaching methods to accommodate their needs?

13. How do you find and evaluate homeschooling methods and curricula? Do you rely on recommendations from friends, online resources, or attending homeschooling conferences and seminars?

14. How do you balance the desire for academic achievement with the importance of character development in your homeschooling? How do you prioritize one over the other or find a balance between the two?

Read the full transcript:

Yvette Hampton:

Hey everyone. This is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad you are with us this week. We have an incredible guest on and she’s been on with us before. She was part of the Homegrown Generation Family Expo that we did back in March. And we’ve had her on the podcast a few times. And so I’m so excited to have Kristi Clover back with us. We are going to talk this week about how to homeschool because so many people are asking that question, how do I homeschool? How do I do this thing? And so we are going to dig deep into this and I could think of no better person to do this than with Kristi Clover this week. I want to tell you kind of a little story about how this all came to be. So 13 years ago, my friend Holly Lerner, who is a good friend of mine, she kind of has been my homeschool mentor and mom mentor when I very first became a mom. And she’s been homeschooling for quite some time. And so she wrote this two page document for me on how to homeschool. It was literally titled how to Homeschool. And 13 years later, I still have this document. And I came across it the other day. I hadn’t seen it for quite some time and I thought, you know what? There are so many new people homeschooling. And though we talk about homeschooling all the time, I really wanted to do a how to episode. And so I was looking at that and thinking, oh, this would be great. We need to do an episode on this and kind of go off some of her points. And then I had Kristi Clover scheduled to come on today and we were going to talk about chores and how to teach our kids to do chores and teach them responsibility and all of that fun stuff. And so I went on her website to look at some things and the first thing that I clicked on, I don’t even know how I got to it, but the first thing I clicked on was Kristi’s how to homeschool. And I was huh, OK, perhaps this is what the Lord wants us to talk about today. So I called Kristi like 2 hours ago and I said, hey, what do you think about switching gears? Do you want to talk about how to homeschool? And she was like, sure, I’m up for anything. And so we’re talking about this because this is really, I feel like what the Lord put on our hearts to talk about today. And because we have so many new people homeschooling and they’re asking the question, they want to know what to do, how do they do this? So we are going to dig deep into this this week and I hope that you’re going to be encouraged. Kristi, tell our listeners for those who are not familiar with you introduce yourself and your family to us. Sure.

Kristi Clover:

Yeah. So I am a homeschool mom. I’m a veteran homeschool mom. We’ve been homeschooling for over two years now. We have graduated two of our five kids out of our home school. And we have a very unique experience when it comes to homeschooling from the standpoint of we had our kids in a private Christian preschool. We did public school. We pulled our kids out of public school to do homeschooling. So that’s kind of our home school background. Other than that, yeah, I have this whole online life where I love encouraging people. And that is the beauty of getting to do this online, is I feel like I can actually encourage so many families using these online platforms that are available to us. But I’ve written a few books. I have a free book called Sanity Savers for Moms, and that is available on my website for free. And then I also have a book, I’ll just plug it here called Mom Master Organizer of Mayhem. And that’s all about home organization, but with moms in mind because I want you to give yourself a lot of grace. And then I also have Homeschool Basics, which is why we’re talking today. It’s about how to get started, motivate your kids, and bring out the best in your kids.

Yvette Hampton:

Awesome. So many good resources. And we have done episodes with you on every one of those. So back in March, when we did the Homegrown Generation, we talked about sanity savers for Moms. So we’ll put a link to the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. So if you guys have not participated in that, it’s still available. You can still sign up for that. It’s $20. And you have access to the entire conference with Christie’s session as well as all the others, and access to the whole one that we did back in 2020. And that one had Heidi St. John and Kirk Cameron and a whole bunch of other people as well. So, yeah, you can sign up for that and hear that whole session. And then we did another one on your mom book and on Homeschool Basics. So we’ll put links to all those things in the show notes. But before we get into this, we are going to get into the logistics of how to homeschool because that’s why we’re here and that’s what we’re going to talk about this week. But before we do, I want to talk about just kind of setting the foundation for all of this because we can throw out all of the how to’s, right? We can give all the points. You start here, start here, do this next. Next. But really, when it all comes down to it, what really matters is what is your goal? What is your why? Why are you even homeschooling? And so we talk about this on the podcast all the time, but I want to talk through a couple of verses really quickly. And the first one is Ecclesiastes 1213. And this is probably my favorite verse in the whole Bible. If I could choose one that has to be my favorite, this is probably the one that I would choose. And it says, this the end of the matter. All has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man, you guys, that’s it. That’s the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments. And it says the very first few words is the end of the matter. All has been heard. Like, that’s it.

Kristi Clover:

This is what you do.

Yvette Hampton:

Exactly. I mean, I feel like we could just be like and done. That’s how you home school, just fear God and keep his commandments. Right. That really is all that matters is that we fear God and keep his commandments, and then that we teach that to our kids. And as we’re teaching that, of course, they think of Deuteronomy 6:4-9. And this is kind of the homeschool-y verse that you hear a lot of people say, and I think it’s kind of gotten, I want to say almost swept under the rug because people were like, yeah, Deuteronomy six, that’s the thing. But I’m going to read it again, because again, I think it’s so important for where we are today and for what it is that we’re doing in homeschooling our kids. And this is what it says. It says here, o Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk aby the way and when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. And you guys, that’s it. That’s really what matters, the end of the matter. All of this, all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, and then go and teach them to your kids, and teach them when you sit in your house, when you walk, by the way, when you lie down and when you rise. That’s what God’s commanded us to do. And so the very first thing when knowing how to homeschool is you got to know your why. And this is something that we as parents, we really have to take seriously, because this is the foundation of our parenting. This is the foundation of our homeschooling, and it is the most important thing. I know that was a long introduction to this how to homeschool. And people are like, just get to the nitty gritty. Give me my list. And they’ve got their pen and hopefully their Schoolhouse Rocked podcast notes. But Kristi, you speak all over the country on this specific topic and I want you to kind of dig in with us. What is kind of going off of what we started talking about? What is the first thing that parents need to focus on?

Kristi Clover:

Well, I do think, as you said, that understanding the why behind your homeschooling is so vital because that’s what’s going to help you during those hard days. And you’re like, what am I doing? You’re like that’s, right? So I always encourage people to write down your why and keep it posted somewhere so you can go back and look at it helps to have scripture. I love looking at those different scripture references you mentioned. But the other part of it that both my husband are really passionate about is that we really feel like as parents, we’re called to disciple our children. And Vodi Bakum has the most fun way of looking at that deuteronomy verse that you talked about. And he’s like, there’s no public school in the desert. So when Moses is giving these instructions to Israelites, it’s not like, okay, yeah, while they’re at a public school, they’ll do the public school thing. And then when we’re around them, yeah, that’s when we teach our kids. We’re called to train our kids up in the Lord. And I think it’s just so important and I think it’s easy to think when because what I hear a lot from people is, well, if I home school, it’s going to drive us all crazy. Like, I’m going to drive my kids crazy, my kids are going to drive me crazy. They’re going to drive each other crazy. And that’s a very common thing. And it happens. I will just tell you, yes, that’s going to happen. But really it comes back to parenting. It’s calling you to get on top of some different parenting issues that you probably have going on. And that’s really important because I think it’s easy to say, well, I’ll just have the school take care of it. And right now, what we know that’s happening in school, that’s the last place you really want your kids to be. What is happening is no longer a secret agenda. It’s now a very blatant agenda that is coming out into our school systems. And we’ve been fed a lie for a long time. And I think I’ve homeschooled long enough now because this is, I think, our 15th or so year homeschooling. And that you start recognizing this lie that we have been told is that trust us, trust the schools. You’re not equipped to teach your children. We are equipped to teach your children. And that’s a lie we’ve been fed for a long time. And so we’re supposed to put this trust in this government agency that right now is trying to push more politics than academics and so that’s the other part of the issue is you might feel like you’re not equipped. God is going to call you and equip you. If he is calling you to parent your child, he’s going to equip you in that. So that’s really important to understand that if you’re feeling unable to homeschool, you need to lean on in the Lord and find support. There’s so much out there to help you support. And so that I think is really, again, going back to discipleship is really being the heart of the issue and just knowing that God is going to help you, he’s going to give you discernment, he’ll help you find better curriculum. If the curriculum you’re using isn’t working for you, you have amazing resources. Like you guys have so many great resources, especially with the homegrown homeschooling program that you guys put on. It was so good to be a part of that and just to see all the different people that are there. But I always encourage people get to a homeschool convention, find your people. So that’s where you find your people. And then online you can do a Google search and find other homeschool communities as well because those are the people who are going to help you figure out how am I doing this whole homeschool thing when you really look again.

Yvette Hampton:

Big right? And so what you’re saying is homeschooling really is discipleship and discipleship is parenting and parenting is discipleship. And so our kids are being parented by someone, right? They’re either being parented by us or they’re being parented by the public school system or private school system, wherever you have your kids. So whoever has them for the most amount of time is the one who’s truly parenting and discipling their hearts for the majority of time. And so yeah, it is a high calling and it’s a lot of work. It is not for the faint of heart but it is for every parent who has a know. And I think you and I are on the same page. And I know we’ve talked with Heidi St. John about this as like we used to be in that boat where we were. Well, you know, homeschooling is for some but maybe not for everybody. Maybe God’s calling this person to it, but not that person. And we’re now in the boat of like he’s calling all parents to homeschool because he has called all parents to disciple the hearts of their children just as we’ve read in Ephesians or in Deuteronomy and in Ecclesiastes. I mean, that is what God has called us to do as parents. And so it is training up our children right in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. As Ephesians 6:4, it’s teaching them obedience, it’s teaching them to obey. Colossians 3:20 is children, obey your parents in all things. For this. Pleases the Lord. We want our kids to have blessings and so therefore we want them to obey the things that we’re teaching. There’s just so much scripture that backs up our responsibility as parents to teach them the word of God and to teach them all the things of the Lord. And so that is what we’re called to do. So yeah. So your first point, of course, is start with the end of mind and know why you’re doing this. Why are you homeschooling? What is your purpose in doing this? So what would be your next thing now once parents have figured out, okay, here’s our why, we know what we’re doing. We know that we’re called to disciple our kids and to teach them the ways of the Lord. But then they’re like, but what next? What do we do now?

Kristi Clover:

What next? Well, honestly, I mean, if you want to get practical, your next thing is to figure out what your state laws are. So if you have a child, because I’ll meet people that are like, I have a three year old, I want to home school. And it’s like, well, absolutely, teach your kid whatever you want, but pretty much every state does not require you to register a three year old, so you don’t have to officially homeschool. And in the state of California, I’m very familiar with our homeschool laws here, we’re not even required to start homeschooling until our child is age six as of September 1. So there’s some of those types of things. But knowing your state laws is really important, and that is as easy as going to HSLDA, which is Homeschool Legal Defense Association. So if you go to HSLDA, not just Christian some homeschoolees for you, but they have a list of all that you need as far as how to get homeschooling in your state. And so that’s probably the practically figure out your why, pray about it, and then contact HSLDA. And we’re lifetime members because we did the math. We started figuring out we’re yep, yep, might as well pay the lifetime membership. And we love supporting them as well, but they have all the information about how to get started. So in California, we homeschool under a private school affidavit. So we actually aren’t even part of any other kind of a school system. We’re part of the private school system, so a lot of people don’t know that. In fact, fun fact is that California is one of the easier states to homeschool in, which is shocking for everyone. And I think it’s because we’re under the umbrella of private schools. So it’s really saved us a lot of headache as they continue to make all of these fun changes in our public schools. I mean, some of the curriculum they have for the longest time, parents in my area were like, oh, that doesn’t come here. We’re such a conservative part of California. It’s everywhere. And even our church has gotten involved. We’re going to school board meetings and begging them to stop teaching sex education to kindergartners and the content that is in these are pornographic and it’s not healthy for any child. I mean, they’re sexualizing our children at such a young age. So again, it goes back to that why if I were just starting off, if I had a child getting ready to be in the school system, my why would look a lot different now than it did when I started. I think discipleship I want my kids to have a Christian worldview, that’s what’s most important to me is that they understand. I want them to love the Lord with all their heartful, mind and strength and develop a love for learning. And those are really our two goals. And really if they come out with nothing more than just to love the Lord and they hated every aspect of learning, they’re not going to love it anymore in public school. But you know what? That’s my job as a parent, is to introduce them all that I can. And the hardest part, now that I have two young adults again, you may not be thinking this if you’re just starting out or have kids under the age of 18, but your kids get to make their own decision on whether or not to follow the Lord. And it’s our job to present all that we can, to give them as much love and to shine for Jesus. And in fact, one thing I’d like to remind myself about that Deuteronomy verse, Deuteronomy 6 is that what it says is that we’re to put these in our own heart first.

Yvette Hampton:

Amen.

Kristi Clover:

And then we’re to impress them onto our kids. So you need to be loving the Lord and really learning what that looks like and teach your kids how to love the Lord. And that’s not always going to be because you found the perfect math curriculum or writing curriculum that’s important, but your kids hearts are more important. And what’s happening right now is our kids are being thrown into a Babylon. So that’s really the dynamic that we have and we probably have had that for a long time and we just haven’t seen it until COVID wasn’t as obvious. Oh, no. And now it’s crazy to see how revealing they are. I mean, Satanic groups are literally like, oh yeah, we’re out here, we’re for this. Oh yeah, right, exactly. So that’s what again, it comes down to the heart of your child. And I like to think about like when Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, they were all taken like the Israelites were taken captive. And you have I don’t remember the number, but I believe it was millions of Israelite children were being taken away from their homeland and they were being thrown into Babylon, being taught all the cultural things, being educated in the Babylonian style of education, which was very it’s anti God. They believe in multiple gods and all kinds of crazy stuff. And yet at the end of the day. There were only four Israelite kids that we hear that stood up for the Lord. And so that’s what’s important is that we have to give our kids a firm foundation. And yes, the Lord will totally work. And yes, the Lord I was 15 and living in a dysfunctional Christian family when the Lord really gripped my heart, and he can do that for anyone. But I love that I can give my kids this foundation and that, I mean, the Lord’s still going to be at work, but I don’t want them in a Babylon environment. So that’s my little two cent on that is that I just think we are in a different day and age now. And I think if it takes every ounce of your energy, you’ve got to do it. You’ve got to protect your children.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, absolutely. It’s our job to do that. To protect their hearts, protect their bodies, protect their minds, protect their souls. So we’re here to help you do that. You said you’ve been homeschooling for somewhere around 15 years, right?

Kristi Clover:

Kristi yeah, about 15 years. Graduated, two kids so far. So we’re doing it.

Yvette Hampton:

So cool. Yay.

Kristi Clover:

It’s working.

Yvette Hampton:

And they’re still functional adults, which is amazing.

Kristi Clover:

Full time jobs. My oldest is married. I didn’t even think I mentioned that on the Monday’s episode. Yeah. My oldest, I am a mother of I’ll tell you that’s. Busy adding that 6th child, that was the easiest thing ever. No morning sickness, just a really day and then voila, I have another addition to our family. It’s awesome.

Yvette Hampton:

That’s so cool. I love that. I look forward to getting to that point. We’re getting there quickly. Brooklyn’s going to be a senior this year. Oh, man. I know. It’s so fast. It is so fast. We will have a middle schooler and a high schooler. Who’s almost done with high school. Yeah, I know. I was looking at my calendar the other day and the co op that we’re doing this year with both my girls, they have a graduation planning meeting and I was like, I have to go to a meeting to plan her graduation. It’s just so surreal and it’s weird. Like, I remember when I was pregnant with her, this was probably about two weeks before she was born and just thinking like, how surreal it was. She’s almost here. She’s almost going to be on this earth, out of my body, and how bizarre that reality was. And so getting to this next phase of life, because it really is the next big phase. She’s going to adult now. Yeah, it’s bizarre. And I’m so thankful that the Lord’s given us all these years to home school and to be able to build a relationship with her and with my youngest daughter. I mean, I’m so very grateful for that. Which on a quick note, I’ve said this, I think before on the podcast, but I’m going to go back to something you talked about on Monday, you talked about how oftentimes parents will say, oh, just the thought of being with their kids all day and their kids being with them and them being with each other. And one of the things I’ve realized is that oftentimes parents who don’t home school, they think that they don’t want to be with their kids or can’t be with their kids because their kids will drive them crazy. The reason their kids drive them crazy is because they’re not the ones raising them. Someone else is raising them with their own morals, standards and values and beliefs. And not that your kids are going to be perfect if they’re in your home, but when you’re raising them your way, it’s a very different outcome usually than when someone else is raising them and you have them in the evenings and on the weekends and on spring break and in the summertime. And then you think, I don’t really like this kid. I don’t like the way they act. Take them in, take on that role of full time parenting, not part time parenting, and see how things change. I think people will be really surprised to see what the Lord does and how he can work through you and your kids lives you have on your website. It’s a home school webinar. It’s the how to home school webinar. It’s kind of a crash course. I want to go through that and I want to do like the crash crash course. The crash course of the crash course. We do the crash course.

Kristi Clover:

We can do the crash course of the crash course. Yes. If you need more help in the crash course, right.

Yvette Hampton:

If you need further explanation things, we will put a link to that from Christie’s website as well. But we talked about setting that foundation. We talked about HSLDA and knowing what your state laws are and really knowing the why of homeschooling. What would be the next thing that parents need to consider when know here’s.

Kristi Clover:

The thing is that I’m going to speak to the families, okay? So if you are pulling your kid out of school, so you already have kids in school and now you’re going to be homeschooling them at home. Honestly, one of the biggest recommendations I have. And it was something that was told to me when we first started homeschooling, because it was a kindergartner and a first grader out of school is you need to spend at least a good month, if not just your first year of time, just getting back to being a family and what that looks like, because you’re changing the dynamics. And so sometimes you don’t even need to home school with curriculum and that blows people’s mind. I mean, math is one of those things, like math and phonics, like learning to read and math are two things that are helpful to have some curriculum. But there’s so many ways to learn that’s kind of a little unschooling. So you might be if you’re one of those parents, you’re like, yeah, that’s all nice and pretty, Kristi, but I need curriculum. Then there is curriculum out there, but I just want people to know that you can homeschool and kind of do it the easy way. You can study science by looking out and seeing what the weather is. Track the weather, see what that looks like, compare the weather to your area, to other areas that’s learning science. Maybe go to the library, check out some books on weather. You can pick up a rock and see what’s underneath it and study that. We tend to kind of study what’s around us. So we have hummingbirds that are constantly building nests in our yard. So we did a whole little unit study on hummingbirds. And for those of you that I just dropped a word that is a home school ease word unit studies that’s simply taking a subject and building curriculum around that and not like official curriculum that you’re taking something like a hummingbird. And I’m going to find some books about hummingbirds, I’m going to learn science. Maybe there’s not so much history around hummingbirds, but sometimes there is. You’d be surprised. Like with cats, you can study the history of cats in Egypt, cats in other countries. So there’s so many fun ways to really learn how to learn. And that would be my encouragement to families is don’t feel bogged down by all of the choices that you have and sometimes that is just what you need. You need a gentle start. Open your Bible, maybe get there’s some great missionary books out there. YWAM has a whole series of missionary books that we really enjoy. One of my favorite books is about to blank on, oh, I need to go get it. It’s hero tales. That’s the name of it, hero Tales. And it’s just snippets of different missionary lives and they also have like a character study on there. So when you learn about missionaries, you can learn about the countries that they’re from. What are some of the unique things that are happening there? What are some cultures and customs of those things? Find them on a map. So there’s so many ways when you start homeschooling, you really learn how to make it a lifestyle. So that’s my encouragement to those who are pulling their kids out. If you’re pulling your kids out of high school or you’re pulling them out and starting into high school, you do need to be more deliberate. I would say like 2nd, 3rd grade down, you can totally be relaxed about your start for homeschooling. Just stick to the basics, have fun with it. But then if you’re homeschooling, like even junior high to high school, you can know because especially for high school, you’re building a transcript. And so that’s just as scary as it might sound. You are calling up HSLDA, looking on their website, finding.

Yvette Hampton:

Out.

Kristi Clover:

And again, HSLDA is Homeschool Legal Defense Association. There are lawyers in the homeschooling realm, and they’ll show you exactly what’s required in your state law to graduate your child, and it will blow your mind. It will blow your mind, because we got used. I was just sharing with this with someone today at coffee that when we go through high school, we think, oh, four years of English, four years of science, four years of math. And it’s shocking that in California at least, it’s like two to three years of English, two years of math, two years of science, and they graduate. I mean, it is crazy to see what’s required in your state, and so that’s all you’re paying attention to is what’s required and then have fun with it. And another important part of starting off is what are your kids interested in? And learn about that, and that is going to spark their interest. So when I first told the kids, because we were a few weeks into this school, and they’re having fun at recess and all that, and so my oldest was like, more time to read. Okay, let’s home school. I can read all day. And then my second at the time, he was like, but I just want to play soccer all day. Can I do that? And then I was like, well, no, we can’t do soccer all day. We can play more soccer than you can do at school. But he was so cute. I’m like, So what do you think? He’s like, can we do a volcano? And I was like, absolutely. We are going to build a volcano. So we ended up doing this cute little unit study on Hawaii. So we learned about Hawaiian culture. We happened to have a Hawaii vacation that we were tying it into. So we went to Hawaii. We took microscopes in Hawaii and learned about the sun and how intense it is. And I brought chocolate. And I learned this is like this cute little science project I read about. And I learned you should always bring extra chocolate for your children to eat, because as we were burning, I was showing how intense the sun is when it goes to the microscope, and it burned the chocolate. And they’re like, that’s cool, but can we eat it? I’m like.

Yvette Hampton:

Right.

Kristi Clover:

Sorry. So bring extra chocolate. That’s my hack for you and for mom, too. And yes, that’s a must. So homeschooling and chocolate go very closely together. But no, just figure out what your kids are passionate about and what they’re interested in did. Because I had little boys at the start of our homeschool journey, so we did knights, and so we studied the medieval period, and we learned about all these crazy things. And we did Egypt, because Egypt’s a fun thing to learn about with boys. And so just find what they’re interested in. And as you’re building when you go into high school, what’s amazing is how it takes what is it like, however many thousands of hours to become an expert at something. We have that opportunity to do that in our home schools because our kids have more time. We’re not spending all of the changing class periods changing teacher time. We’re in there. We get it done. We’re usually done by lunch. My high schoolers go a little bit beyond lunch, typically, but my oldest has a passion for reading and for writing, and so I just let him go in that area. We centered a lot of his homeschooling around writing. He wrote two novels by the time he was 17. He didn’t publish them, but he wrote two novels, which is a huge undertaking. Then my second, who we graduated, he had a real passion and infinity and just an inspiration with photography. And so he was always writing. It rained. He was, like, out the door with his camera. He wanted to catch the dew drops and the raindrops falling off the flowers, and so we just were able to really get him involved in learning about that. Now he’s a professional photographer, and my oldest son is working, and he’s doing copy editing with his job. And so it’s just so cool to see how you can really look for these strengths. You can build up the weaknesses, but look for those strengths and pour into them and just let them flourish. And that’s something that you can’t do in other things. So I’m hoping that by saying all that, it will really encourage people that you have to take off these, like, well, what are they learning in public school? I need my home school to look like the public school. This is your school, and honestly, we can say that, so we’re blue in the face. It’ll take three years. This is honest to goodness three years of homeschooling before you, ah, I don’t care what the public schools are doing. This is my home school. And it’s like, just breathe a little, but just keep reminding yourself that Christine Yvette told you that this is your home school and you can design it the way you want to. It doesn’t need to look like the public school.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, I love the three years. That’s so funny. And I think you’re spot on because that’s about how long it took me to realize, oh, okay, so this is not going to look like my schedule. That looked like the public school schedule. And it was so frustrating because I always felt like I was failing my kids and I was failing myself, and I just was doing it all wrong. And so it took about that long, and so, yeah, learn it before you don’t do the three years. Just skip the three years of trying to replicate regular, traditional school and do it the way that works best for your families. Kristi, you’ve got five kids and you have a wide range, so your oldest is how old? And your youngest is how old?

Kristi Clover:

21. Down to nine, actually. Well, and by the time this airs, she’ll be ten. So that’ll give her some credit there. She’s going to be like, mom, I’m ten.

Yvette Hampton:

Right? Yeah. Not nine anymore where credit is due. Right.

Kristi Clover:

So we have eleven year gap.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, especially when you get into those double digits. I mean you got to give her the double digits.

Kristi Clover:

My baby is going to have double digits. Oh man, breathing through that.

Yvette Hampton:

Oh, it’s okay. Deep breath, deep breath.

Kristi Clover:

I know.

Yvette Hampton:

So you’ve got an eleven year age gap with your kids. It’s the question of course, that everybody asks, how do you home school with all I mean, that’s a big range of ages and different grades and different levels for everything. So tell us what your typical homeschool day looks like.

Kristi Clover:

Well, my typical homeschool day now looks a little bit different because everyone is in our home school. So it’s a little easier with everyone homeschooling and everyone is a reader now. So I’ve kind of entered into that sweet spot where we have all readers because once you have readers, it actually does get a lot easier. So I always tell people that it’s when you have the pre readers, it’s a little more complicated. So the number one thing is to whether you because I’ve homeschooled through it all. So we started homeschooling with two kids in kindergarten and first grade, and I had a toddler, which is honestly one of the hardest parts of homeschooling is working around your toddlers. So babies, you can totally work around their schedule because their schedule is kind of what you put them on. But toddlers are like, why aren’t we playing? We’re supposed to be playing. So my number one recommendation if you are homeschooling with young kids alongside of your school age kids, is to have a game plan for those kids. Don’t just think, oh, I’m planning my curriculum. You need to plan your curriculum or plan what you’re doing for them, your school age kids, but then also have a game plan for fun. Let them be part of your home school around two and a half. They’re like, school is fun because you’re giving them coloring books. I would make copies of what I was doing with the older boys and they were just scribbling all over it and they’re like, yeah, we got this. That is my recommendation there. And I actually part of my how to homeschool webinar and part of my homeschool organization course. Both of those have a whole section just about how to juggle that how do you homeschool and you have big kids and little kids in the house because it’s really important. It is a juggling act and it is difficult, but it’s totally doable. I just want to encourage you that it’s totally doable. And so I have a lot of very specific tips for that. But my typical schedule now, as it kind of always is, is that I try to divide up their work between work that needs to be done with mom and work that they can do independently and sometimes that’s kind of a combo. So I might have to introduce a sheet so I might be talking through a grammar worksheet or a math page and kind of giving them some information about how they’re going to be doing this and then they can do the rest on their own. So penmanship is pretty much always on their own. So they save all of those for either when I’m working with another sibling or for later on in the day. And I say that because it helps with making kids focus. So by the time we hit lunch, if they have had a focus day and they need more help, yes, of course I help them, but they just know that the work that requires my help needs to be done before lunch. So morning time, I’m 100% there. I’m switching off between kids so I’m having them do some of the independent work while I work with another and then we switch off and kind of trying to figure it out. Most of my time is usually with my younger learners and my older kids all learn kind of they start learning how to organize themselves and how to structure their days. That’s just part of the rhythm that I try to teach them and it teaches them independence as well. But that’s really what I try to do because we’ll also have those kids who will just not get to their work and will find every excuse not to do their work. So it was helpful for me to say, well buddy, we need to make sure that we have this done earlier. So I’ll probably give them a little help in the afternoon. They’ll be like tomorrow. And I’ll give little reminders for that child. Sometimes the ones that tend to kind of put it off is like, okay, remember, mommy’s going to go run some errands later this afternoon. So if you need me and you need my help, then this is what we do. And my next bit of information between the mornings and the afternoons and dividing up what is the mom time stuff and the independent stuff. And again, that’s why high school sometimes will go later because they’re doing mostly independent at that time, sure, but also just helping them to kind of I don’t know if you’re this way, but I find that there’s some subjects I don’t get to and so I move those up front. So if I’m not getting to writing then guess what our very first subject is of the day is going to be writing. Because I’m fresh in the morning, my kids are fresh in the morning and that really helps us. And so I try to move the things that by the end of the day it’s the subjects. And it’s the things that I’m like, I’m tired. I’m the whining kid. I’m the one. I’m like, Are we done yet? The kids are like, no, mom. So I find that I need that extra motivation because we’re doing our read alouds up front, but really looking at how you can structure things. And you know what, one of the things we did when we had especially babies that weren’t sleeping well, I was trying to do sleep training and homeschooling and all the things. And my husband traveled for like 20 years of our marriage, so most of my homeschooling, of my older boys, he was on the road. So it was me and five kids. And so we had to juggle that. What I found is oftentimes when the babies are going to bed at like 738 o’clock, then I’m doing a read aloud or I’m doing our Bible time at that time. So there are some times in some seasons of our lives when I would just kind of pick some things to do in the evening because it was just easier to do it then. So that’s a few of my little tips for kind of routines. But you don’t need to have and I do say routines. I try to tell people, please don’t try to schedule your whole year into a teacher planner because you’re just going to have a mountain of eraser dust. And so that’s one of the things that I try to teach in my homeschool organization course, is really how to strip that from your mind. Because that’s the first thing I did when we started homeschooling. I bought a teacher planner because I’m like, well, that’s me too, at Target.

Yvette Hampton:

Which I’d never buy anything at Target now, but I did 13 years ago, right?

Kristi Clover:

And you just end up erasing. I don’t think I made it more than a week into it when I was erasing and drawing arrows and trying to figure out how to put tabs on it to know where in the world I was. And so I really try to teach people in my organization course how to take things by week, how to divide it out using the table of contents. So there’s lots of strategy to really simplify, and especially for you as the parent, because we can really drive ourselves insane when we’re trying to plan out. Some states require 180 days. We’re like, that’s 180 days of planning. Please get that off your brain. That is so much more complicated than looking at 36 weeks or 34, depending upon your state. So that’s really how I try to simplify things. And what I’ve learned later in life, and actually I’ve learned this about myself through homeschooling, is that I actually have add a little bit of ADHD hyperactive. My mind’s always going. So that’s my h. My brain makes me creative, makes me be able to do interviews like this on the fly. But I’m also easily distracted. What I’ve learned is, if things aren’t simple, my brain literally puts up a strike sign. They’re like my brain is just like, no, you think that you want to do that, but we’re not doing that. And I cannot get myself to do it unless I have figured out the simplest way. And then my brain’s like, okay, I can do this. So I think that’s what’s really unique is that I have really had to learn how to be efficient in all that.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, I’m exactly the same way, and it definitely works for me. I’m pretty sure we answered a question similar to this on a Q&A that we did recently with Aby. And we talked about planning. And one of the things that I said was, I learned this years ago, was to get a notebook, just a spiral bound notebook. And each day and you could do it by the week if you really wanted to, if that makes you feel better. But each day, just write down what the next thing is that your kids have to do. So each kid has their own spiral bound notebook. Write down their checklist. My girls like, checklists, and I like, checklists. It just makes me feel accomplished. And there’s that satisfaction in checking off the thing that you’ve done. And so, yeah, it’s so much easier to do it that way.

Kristi Clover:

But you do have to kind of.

Yvette Hampton:

Plan out here’s our course of action, what’s our goal? And I think it’s important to know what our goal is for the end of that year.

Yvette Hampton:

Kristi, we talked last time at the end of our episode a little bit about scheduling and what your schedule looked like with your kids. I want to talk a little bit more specifically about curriculum today because I know this is one of the questions that everyone’s favorite questions when they get started. We talked about kind of deschooling and starting slow for those younger years. But talk to the mom who maybe she’s pulling in her middle school kid or her high school kid or maybe even elementary school, and she’s just like, I want curriculum. But there’s so much there’s so much to choose from. And I think this is the most at least for myself, this is the most overwhelming part of homeschooling is knowing what curriculum to choose because it can get really expensive. And then how do I choose it? And then once I choose it, what do I do with it?

Kristi Clover:

How do I use yeah, so that’s a great question. And I think that it requires an honest evaluation of yourself as the teacher because your curriculum needs to be something that will work for your kids learning styles, and you’re probably just figuring that out. When you’re a new home school mom, you probably have observed certain things, like, are your kids very tactile? They tend to listen better. Do they tend to visually see things. And really, when you’re incorporating all of the senses, that’s when they’re learning best. But you also have to pay attention to your teaching style because I only have the capacity for so much. And so when we first started homeschooling, we had two kids in school and we had a toddler. I was able to do more hands on type of curriculum, curriculum where we were doing more things together because my oldest two are so close in age, they’re only 17 months apart. So I could kind of teach them together except for reading and math, which those are usually the two subjects where everybody’s kind of learning incrementally and they build upon each other. But in all the other subjects, I was teaching them together. And so that was a lot easier until I suddenly had high school and junior high and elementary and a baby and someone else in between, like a toddler. It’s hard when you have this big stretch. So that’s when I had to get real and be like, I can’t really set up all of the things that I thought I could. I needed more video based learning. And so our math curriculum is video based. Our writing curriculum is more video, in fact. Yeah. As much as I love IEW and I love all things fun and fabulous, such a great curriculum, I also know okay, I’m going to be very honest. Andrew, if you’re listening, don’t listen to this part. I have never completely finished the all things fun and fascinating. I’ve gotten at least halfway through with my kids, but I rely on andrew poudois to teach my children. So we have just gotten to a point where that’s what I do with my kids. They watch Andrew on the TV, and then they do their thing, and then I can kind of come in and help from.

Yvette Hampton:

So just for those of you who are like, what in the world is she talking about? And who’s andrew Poudawa is the founder president of IEW, which is the Institute for Excellence in Writing. They’re one of our sponsors on the podcast. And we’re not talking about them because they are it’s because we’ve used them. You’ve used them, and it’s fantastic writing curriculum. And so a lot of their curriculum is video based. I think almost everything they have, not all of it, but a lot of their main is video based. And so Andrew kind of like CTC math, teaches your kids how to do math online. Andrew Poudawa, who’s the founder, he does basically like the classroom lecture, but he’s mean, so engaging, and they’re fantastic videos. And so you can do the curriculum with your kids, but he teaches it to them for you so that you don’t have to teach. So that’s what she’s talking about. I wanted to just clarify that. So people are like, who is Andrew?

Kristi Clover:

Andrew, what is she talking about? Yes, I try not to do homeschoolees, and I did it, so I apologize. Institute for Excellence in Writing, IEW yeah, those were a few of those real moments. And what’s great is that here’s the other thing, is most curriculums do have a resource where you can call in and ask, and they do. And so I was like, I’m not getting to writing. I’ve tried doing it in the morning. I’ve got too many kids doing different levels of writing. And so I was like, okay, so they helped me figure out this would be good for these kids, this would be good for those kids. But I had to get very real with myself. So my Pollyanna, optimistic person of like, I can do it all. Yeah, that did not happen. That didn’t play out past the first week of homeschooling. So when you’re picking curriculum, I would encourage you to think how many age levels if you have kids clover together, then it’s going to be easier. I still combine history and science with at least two kids in my home school, if I can’t get them all kind of under that umbrella. So this year, for instance, my son who is doing 9th grade work, he did American history using sunlight, whereas the girls and I did American History using not grass. And we read that together. So he was able to do his work independently. We were able to do our work independently. So there’s a lot of different things like that. But you need to really pay attention to typically there’s multiple subjects that you’re teaching, so you want to see what is your capacity, do you have young kids in the house. When you have babies and toddlers in the house, I encourage people, especially if they have younger ages of school age kids, please just stick to the basics reading, writing, and arithmetic and incorporate science and history into those subjects so you’re not killing yourselves. Because what people do is they’ll break down language arts. Okay, I need a curriculum for vocabulary, writing, penmanship, grammar, whatever, other spelling. So you’ve got five language arts that you buy curriculum for those, and then you’re like, oh, history, geography, oh, I should do math work, which is I guess, geography. Then we’ll do math, we’ll do math concepts, we’ll do like, math theory, and then, oh, we need Bible, we need Bible theory, we need worldview. So you end up having like 20 things that you think you have to teach. And that’s one of the reasons why when here’s something straight from my course. So what I always encourage people to do is create a course of study. And so what that is, is you’re taking each subject you’re required to teach in that, like in our school, Bible is number one. So state doesn’t require but clover, we require that in our school. So I write those down and then I write down the curriculum that I’m going to be using or I’m thinking about using, and then I kind of take a look at it and say, oh, can I use this here? And so that helps me to see, do I have a gap? Am I hitting everything I need to hit? Wow. Because sometimes you can skip over. You’ll save so much money when you do it like that. And so really trying to see how you can spread things out, does it look like a lot on paper? Because it’s going to feel like a lot for your kids. And so that’s another thing, is please give your poor children a break. They don’t need to do everything all the time, so you can even split things up. I think that’s a common misconception because we look at the public school like we talked about earlier, and we look at the public school and say, okay, how do I teach all these subjects all at once? Because that’s what they do in school. And that’s not what you can seriously have like a month of doing science and a month of doing history and a month of however you want to do it. You just need to teach them little samples and you’ll figure it out. And the best advice I can give to families trying to figure out where to start with curriculum is just start with something. You can start at costco. You can honestly go to Costco and get the workbooks and just have your kids do some workbooks. Get some books from the library, pull out your Bible, and that can kind of be your simple starter. But you can change the if your child is hitting their head up against a wall because they’re just like, this is so hard, then you might not have a curriculum that works with how they’re learning. The other thing that’s really important to understand is that when your child’s getting frustrated, so when you feel the tension rising and they’re getting frustrated, oftentimes it’s because you’re going too hard too fast. So it’s time to hit the pause button. Who cares what you’ve had planned for people going through my course, I’m like, I don’t care what’s in the crate because I teach people a crate system. You’re going to stop right there and you’re going to give your kids a break and let’s make sure that they have some fundamentals. And I think all of my kids have gone through this with math in particular. There just comes a point where they’re learning learning and then they’re just frustrated. And what it usually comes down to is that they don’t have their fundamentals down. So we’ll take like up to a month sometimes, take a break from who cares, take a break from the curriculum, and we’re just going to do math drills. And so we’ll just focus on times tables or focus on addition or subtraction, just really get that so that they can answer those questions four times three and they’re like, twelve, they’ve got it down. And that is going to be what makes all of the harder like the upper division math so much easier when they really have those fundamentals. And so sometimes it’s not a learning. I think some parents like, oh no, my child is a learning. Oh no, this is a parenting issue. Sometimes it’s just you have the wrong curriculum or sometimes you need to hit the pause button and scale back. Same with phonics as well. Same with reading. It’s okay. I think in society people are just like, your child’s not reading by age five or six. Like what? I have a friend, I know, I have a girlfriend and she still to this day has not told me which of her children, but one of her sons did not read until he was twelve years old. And he went from not being able to read at twelve years old to reading like the Bible aloud to the family reading chapter books. Because sometimes you just have to wait for the brain to get it and then it just takes off and they catch up like that. So never be worried if you feel like your child is behind, your child is learning at their rate. And when the brain gets it, then it’s so amazing to watch. And for the record, that friend that has five kids, all of them have master’s degrees. So it’s not like, oh no, didn’t read until twelve. They were phenomenal. And honestly, I even hate saying that as some sort of a line because I don’t even believe that you have to. And this is probably shocking for everyone. I am so out of the box now of like, you have to do this and do this and do the formula. I don’t think you need the piece of paper. There’s a lot of things that you can do that don’t require that. And by piece of paper, I mean college degree.

Yvette Hampton:

That $150,000 of debt rocked onto it, right?

Kristi Clover:

No, I mean, we are totally thinking outside the box. My husband used to be in the financial industry because every time he mentioned we homeschool our kids and they’re like, well, what are you going to do about college? He’s like, well, actually, my kids can get into college easily. And our oldest is in college, almost done, but he’s doing online and he’s working full time and he’s married. Yeah, and he’s married and supporting his wife. And it’s just this beautiful thing that when you think outside of the box and you have to do that in homeschooling and what you’ll find is that it becomes a lifestyle. And again, it takes three years. I know it’s going to drive everybody crazy, but it’s going to take three years until you go, I think I got this down. I think I know what I’m doing. But it takes that long. So just give yourself grace. In both of my books, I’m like the name of the game is give yourself grace. It’s okay. Yeah, it’s going to be okay.

Yvette Hampton:

One thing I want to say, going back to curriculum is I think one of the greatest things we can do is find maybe three people whose kids are around the same ages as your kids or maybe a little bit older. Ask them what they use, and ask them, especially during the summertime, if you can borrow their curriculum just for like, two weeks, bring it home, look through it yourself, see if it’s something that would work for you, and then look at it with your kids. And see if it’s something that would work well for you and your kids. Or you can look at it online. A lot of companies, I think every one of our sponsors, has trial things that you can do for free. They have free lessons that you can try out, stuff like that. So try it out for free before buying it.

Kristi Clover:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

But ask your friends what they use and what they like about it. And not that you have to do what they do, but that’s going to really help you to narrow down what might work best for your family and maybe friends who do things a little bit differently. Maybe you’ve got a friend who does more Charlotte Mason style and one who’s more unit studies and one who’s more classical. So figure out what works best for your family, talk with your friends and see if that curriculum that they’re using might be a good fit for you. Okay, Kristi, because I want to get back into this really quickly. I want to talk about. You talked about a crate system and organization. I want to talk about organization. Like, how do we organize our homeschool day? Now, we have set the foundation. We know why we’re homeschooling. We know what our goal is. We know where we’re going with it, right? We know what the end goal is. We talked about what our day might look like. We talked about curriculum, what now? How do we put it all into practice? How do we organize it all and actually put it into play?

Kristi Clover:

All right, so how to organize your home. I love again, my brain works a little differently as far as I really was looking for ways to organize our homeschool. And that’s actually, when I started on YouTube was funny, is I did this little video of like, oh, here, let me show you a few of the different systems I use in my home school, and it exploded. So that video is one of my most popular videos. And I introduced people a little bit to my crate system there. And I had so many questions that I decided to create a homeschool organization course. So my homeschool organization course you can find that@homeschoolorganization.com so pretty easy to find. But I talk through not only how to plan and prep for your year, I also help people how to use different systems. And so one of my kind of featured systems is the crate system. And so we pretty much can train you how to put all of your kids, all of your curriculum, into one crate. So you have one crate that has all of the curriculum for the year in that crate divided by weeks. And that’s the key, is that I think it’s so natural for people to think because teacher planners are by day. So we talked about teacher planners earlier. Teacher planners are by day. And I really want you to get that until it is like, Monday. You’re not thinking about daily work. I want you to think by week. And so that’s what the crate system is designed to do. Now, what’s amazing with the crate system, because you planned out your entire home school by week. And again, you have one crate. You have all of your kids in that one crate. We color code our kids, and so they can pull it out, but it creates independence for my kids and also creates a bite sized look at the week. And so one of my friends who was using the system, she was like, Kristi, you’ve revolutionized how we homeschool because her daughter would feel so overwhelmed not knowing what was coming each day. And so she was able to stay. She’d pull out her crate or pull out her folder for the week, and she’s like, this is all I have to get done for the entire week. And so from there, there’s different systems I recommend. Sometimes I recommend some kids can handle just shoving your week’s worth in a clipboard and they are good to go. Like, they just know kind of naturally how to divide it up. That was my oldest son. He was fine. He could take the whole week, stick it in there, he’d do a few pages of math so he could handle that. Other kids need your help training them, how to put it into more of a daily binder or whatever system that you want to have with them. So that is kind of a little bit how the crate system works. And there’s all kinds of nuances that go along with it because it naturally happens. I always say it happens around week twelve. And every year I’m like, yes, week twelve. Week 13 is about the time that I’m like, I need to do adjusting here because we’ve slowed down, sped up. Like we’re pulling things from weeks ahead, we’re a couple of weeks behind and I’m shoving things into the next week. So it kind of just creates this one spot. Works great for military families, works great for missionaries. I’ve had a lot of families. I’ve had parents come up to me crying when they came and saw me one year to the next year. They’re like, I was ready to throw in the towel, was so overwhelmed. And so I really try to come at it practically because I knew what I needed as a homeschool mom, and I wanted to teach that to people. And so part of just the way that I show people again is to introduce all of these different systems and how they work together, how you can tweak it. And I have people that are so cute because they’re like, I love your creek system, but I kind of changed it a little and I’m like, awesome.

Yvette Hampton:

Do what works for you.

Kristi Clover:

And we change it up. Sometimes I’ll put my daughter’s readers in there and so the readers are actually in there. And I can’t do that when I have all five of my kids in one crate because it gets a little and sometimes I will have a second crate that’s okay, I have the space for it. So it depends on your space. It depends on all those things. And again, it’s always fluctuating. So my second oldest, so my second son, when he hit high school, it’s got one of those file boxes and that became his mini crate. And I created that a little differently. Because he needed to see not only his weekly work, but I needed a spot for him to be able to easily because he was working so independently. I needed a spot for him to move his work because we were realizing again, you just kind of have to figure out what’s working. But for him, it’s like, this is work that now mom needs to edit. So like any papers, math, anything that I needed to grade or edit, then we kind of developed a system where I’m pulling things and he’s pulling things. You just kind of work on things together. But really the key feature for the crate is that you have everything in one spot and you’re literally putting your school on autopilot. That is the key feature of the crate and how it works so beautifully. And it’s worked in times when I had to fly to Spain for an emergency situation with a family member who got hurt in Spain and I had to go out and be with them. And it helped when we had another emergency situation with another family. And it allowed me to be able to stay longer. It allowed me to be able to pick up and go. When I had to have surgery one time that was unexpected. My home school continued when I’ve had morning sickness. My kids could handle it when I was suddenly turning very green and couldn’t do it. And again, what I love about it is that again, homeschooling is life. I think that’s what people forget is that before I want, I’d rather my kids get B’s. Not that I grade, that’s a whole other topic about grading. But I’d rather my kids not be as academically strong, but be amazing men and women of God, amazing parents, amazing spouses. That is my goal. Not just to create these perfect kids that look great on the pedestal. I’m not about creating pedestal kids, no one is perfect. Your home school, let me just say this, your home school will not be perfect. Your home, your parenting, your kids, you. No one is perfect. And that should never be what we’re striving for. If you are keeping your eyes like your verse talked about, I’ve never heard that verse used, by the way, for homeschooling. And I love it. I have to sneak that and put that on my little verses.

Yvette Hampton:

You’re welcome. Ecclesiastes 1213.

Kristi Clover:

I know, and I’m blanking on the verse because we have another one that we use about how, like, a student will never be above his master. Is it Luke? It was Luke.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, it’s Luke. 640.

Kristi Clover:

Yeah. So good because, yeah, when they’re fully trained, they should be like the teacher and I’m like, be like the master. And I’m like, I don’t want my kids to look like the public school, but I’ve totally lost my train of thought of where I was. But just to know that it’s not about creating perfect and I think in this day and age of pinterest and instagram and all these places, we want to put on the happy face, like, look at my happy family. You know what? That’s not what it’s all about. We are called to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. And that is honestly, it is a hard thing to teach. But I also know that there’s not really a lot of curriculum that’s going to completely teach that to my kids. What there is, is my life and that’s going to speak a lot louder than anything else. So when my kids see me have to take a break and go and bless a family member and love on a family member, that’s going to be what happens is that they’re seeing that and learning that in the moment.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, that’s real life. It’s real life learning. Because school isn’t just about the academics. The academics are important, but it’s not the most important part. We talk about that all the time on the podcast. But it’s true. It is a part of homeschooling, but it is not the only part and it is not the most important part about homeschooling. Okay, this crate system sounds amazing. Is this part of your because I’m looking on your website, the Ultimate Homeschool Organization course.

Kristi Clover:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

You talk about the crate system in.

Kristi Clover:

There and how to organize organization. Yes. Homeschoolorganization.com, if you go there or Kristiclover.com will also get you there, but yeah, either this will send you straight to me. So the crate system and all of my systems are all housed in there. And again, I was very deliberate about how I pieced everything together and then I have bonus videos to make sure I explain all the little nuances. Because it’s easy to talk with a crate system like I just did and to show you how to plan it out, but then getting it to work with other systems because you said you like checklists. And I help people create the simplest checklist you can ever create. In fact, you can put together a teacher planner. It’s included, I’m like for free within the course. It’s included in the course. And how to put together your own teacher planner. And it’s like the simplest thing ever. And it’s using the weekly system. And I do want to say one thing because we’re talking about home school organization and we’re talking about how we love checklists. And some curriculum comes with checklists and they’re usually pretty darn overwhelming. And I want to introduce one wonderful tip that everyone will love, and that is the power of the X. And that is you do not have to do everything in the curriculum. Checking it off feels great, but you are the teacher. And if your kids are getting bogged down and feel like there is too much, you know what, for history, you’re probably going to cycle it through three or four times. They’re going to pick up new nuggets here and there. They don’t need to read this extra book. They don’t need to do all this extra work. So sometimes you as a parent can just decide, we’re going to skip this part. Harder to do with phonics and math. Those you just take a week off and just pick up where you left off. But don’t be afraid to just cross it out and just be done. Yeah, we’re not doing that this year.

Yvette Hampton:

Oh, man, I love that. Okay, so we’ll put links to that in the show notes. And then you have your book home school basics. Again, we’ve done a whole podcast episode on that, so we’ll put a link to that. And that book is fantastic, you guys. I highly recommend it because she gives more detail on all of these things in the book as well. So if you’re a reader and you enjoy reading, then that is a book for you. Kristi, do you have any last bit of encouragement that you can leave with our.

Kristi Clover:

You know, this is what I like to compare homeschooling choosing to homeschool. So number one, you can homeschool your kids. You can do it. It’s going to probably be way easier than you think it is because you are probably putting a ton of extra pressure on yourself. But with the new Indiana Jones movie coming out soon, and I don’t know what point this is releasing or when you’re listening to this, but that’s all the buzz right now. There’s a new Indiana Jones movie coming out and I would say that the best representation of what it feels like to homeschool is like in the best Indiana Jones movie, which is number three, which is moment. And it’s like, sorry, Harrison Ford, but that was the best. There’s this moment where he has to save his dad’s life and he has to step out and he has to take the step of faith. And so you see him put his foot out and it looks like he’s going to fall. Like there’s this huge chasm between him and the other side. And that’s what it feels like. It feels like, I am going to take this step in homeschool and I’m going to fall to my death. It is sometimes so terrifying. Like, this is going to be a hot mess. And sometimes it literally takes day one. We are homeschooling. Everyone else is back in school and my kids are in my house. What am I doing? So what I love about that moment in the movie is his foot goes out. You still think he’s going to fall and die. And he steps forward and there’s solid ground. And then the camera pans out and you have this new angle and you see the whole time there was this very straight and it’s a straight and narrow path, but it’s a solid path that he can get across the other side. And that’s exactly what it’s like to homeschool, is sometimes you have to take that step of faith. Just like Peter getting out of the boat, just like Indiana Jones at that chasm, there is firm foundation and that’s Christ. And as long as you keep your eyes on Christ, you will get through your homeschool season and you will never, ever regret it. Every hard day, every tear, blood, sweat, tears. Like whatever it is, there’s usually not blood involved. Unless you’re like me and you. Yeah, I’m always cutting myself. I’m like my. Kids are like, mom usually bruises. I’m like, I don’t. But it’s so worth it. And you just have to give yourself grace along the way, and that’s the most important thing. It’s not going to be perfect. So take away your perfect little like, there’s no trophy at the end of the day, but there is a crown of glory that you’re going to at the end of the day for working. And this is, I truly believe, a calling. As a mother, a calling as a father. We are called to finish strong. And it is hard, it’s really hard to parent your child. You are raising a human being, and it’s a mighty calling, but you can do it. And the Lord will see you through it. And he will bring people along your path, too, to encourage you. Don’t try to do it alone.

Unlocking the Power of Homeschooling: Research Insights from Dr. Brian Ray

“I don’t think there’s any way for anybody to make an argument that institutionalizing children in these places we call school, where most of us went, is improving their psychological health.” – Dr. Brian Ray

In a world where traditional schooling can sometimes leave children feeling lost in the crowd, many parents are turning to an alternative education option that provides a personalized and values-driven learning experience for their children – the homeschool revolution! In a recent interview on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, premier homeschooling researcher, and founder of the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI.org), Dr. Brian Ray shared his groundbreaking research and powerful insights on the effectiveness and benefits of homeschooling.

The Blessing of Homeschooling:

According to Dr. Brian Ray, children are a blessing from God, and being actively involved in their education is a profound privilege. Drawing from Biblical principles, Dr. Ray notes, “The Bible is sufficient, and it gives us everything we need to know about how to live and educate our children.” He challenges the notion that the Bible does not address education, pointing out that it contains abundant wisdom on raising and educating children.

“The Bible is sufficient; it has everything we need to know about how to live and how to educate and disciple our children.”

Parent-Directed Home-Based Education Discipleship:

Dr. Ray advocates for “parent-directed, home-based education discipleship,” which he asserts is distinct from traditional homeschooling. This type of education places parents at the forefront, recognizing their duty and responsibility as the primary educators of their children, as outlined in the Bible. Dr. Ray believes that this model empowers parents to create a customized curriculum that aligns with their family’s values, ensuring an education that is truly comprehensive and tailored to meet the needs of each child.

In addition to his research career, as a former public school teacher-turned-homeschool-dad himself, Dr. Ray got to apply the principles he had learned and see the effects of homeschooling in his own family.

“Whether it was easier or harder, whatever, whether children were fussing with us or happy with us as parents, it was the philosophy and the theology and the desire to be together as a family that really drove us.”

Insights from Research:

Dr. Ray’s extensive research has consistently demonstrated the merits of homeschooling. His doctoral dissertation focused on examining the academic achievements of homeschool children in comparison to their public and private school counterparts. The study showcased the efficacy of parent-directed education. Dr. Ray explains, “Homeschooling aligns more with effective teaching and learning conditions, such as smaller groups, increased conversation with adults, and customized curriculum,” which all lead to positive outcomes for students.

One significant finding is that homeschool children exhibit greater engagement and interest in subjects like science. Dr. Ray shares, “The study showed that homeschool children were more engaged and interested in science than their counterparts in institutional schools.” This finding highlights the ability of homeschooling to cultivate a love for learning and curiosity in children, allowing them to explore subjects at their own pace and in a hands-on manner.

Addressing Misconceptions:

Dr. Ray addresses common misconceptions surrounding homeschooling, particularly concerns about child abuse and neglect. Although acknowledging heartbreaking cases within homeschooling families, he emphasizes that abuse and neglect occur in institutional schools as well. Dr. Ray explains that when specific research has compared child abuse and neglect rates between institutionally schooled children and homeschool children the results show much lower rates of abuse among homeschool families.

Watch the video.

He argues that homeschooling, when executed correctly, aligns more effectively with research on effective teaching and learning. Smaller class sizes, increased interaction with adults, personalized curriculum, and the absence of negative peer pressure contribute to a positive learning environment. Dr. Ray wonders, “If we know all this about effective teaching and learning, why would we expect homeschool kids not to perform better on average?”

“On average, homeschoolers perform well academically. They outperform the national average by 15 to 25 percentile points.”

The Impact of Homeschooling:

Dr. Ray’s research has not only debunked negative claims about homeschooling but also demonstrated the extensive outcomes. Quantitative data from adult participants raised in homeschooling families revealed that, in spite of factors such as parent education level and income, homeschooled students outperform their public schooled peers in nearly every measure.

According to Dr. Ray, studies indicate that home-educated individuals generally experience higher levels of achievement, exhibit fewer behavioral problems, and demonstrate lower rates of addiction and depression. While he acknowledges that not all home-educated individuals achieve success and happiness, the overall benefits of homeschooling as a collective group are significant.

Watch or listen here.

Beyond Academics:

Dr. Ray advocates for a holistic approach to education that goes beyond academic achievements. He urges parents to prioritize the well-being of their children by limiting screen time, engaging in outdoor activities, and fostering open communication. He highlights the detrimental impact of excessive screen time on mental health and urges parents to reclaim their role as primary influencers in their children’s lives.

Conclusion:

Dr. Brian Ray’s extensive research and insights shed light on the power of homeschooling as a viable and impactful educational option. By placing parents at the core of their children’s education and providing a Bible-centered, personalized, values-driven approach, homeschooling offers numerous advantages for academic achievement and overall well-being.

As the acceptance and celebration of homeschooling continue to grow, parents are becoming increasingly empowered to provide their children with an education that aligns with their family’s beliefs and values and can be assured that their children will not suffer as a result of “missing out” on traditional schooling. Additionally, Dr. Ray’s research not only indicates positive outcomes for individual students, but also demonstrates the homeschooling movement’s abilty to positively impact communities and nations.

To delve deeper into Dr. Brian Ray’s research and gain a comprehensive understanding of the benefits of homeschooling, Listen to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast or subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch the full interview.

Recommended Resources:

The Gen2 Survey, by NHERI (National Home Education Research Institute) – This study examines adults who attended church growing up and seeks to understand the key influences which either encouraged or deterred them from believing and practicing the faith of their parents.

Answers for Homeschooling: Top 25 Questions Critics Ask, by Israel Wayne

Education: Does God Have an Opinion?, by Israel Wayne

Israel Wayne, Christian Education: A Manifesto 

Education: The Key to Saving Our Nation – Alex Newman on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Getting Started in Homeschooling – Israel Wayne on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast 

Discussion Questions:

1. How does Dr. Brian Ray’s research challenge the perception that homeschooling is inferior to traditional schooling?

2. What are some key factors that contribute to the academic success of homeschooled children, according to Dr. Ray’s research?

3. How does Dr. Ray address concerns about child abuse and neglect in homeschooling families, and what data does he present to support his arguments?

4. How does Dr. Ray’s personal background and experiences influence his perspective on homeschooling?

5. What are some potential drawbacks or challenges of homeschooling that Dr. Ray acknowledges, and how does he address them?

6. How has the acceptance and perception of homeschooling changed over the years, according to Dr. Ray?

7. How does homeschooling impact the overall well-being and mental health of children, as discussed by Dr. Ray?

8. How does Dr. Ray argue that homeschooling can contribute to the improvement of local communities and nations?

9. What are some practical strategies and suggestions for parents to prioritize their children’s well-being in the midst of societal and technological challenges, according to Dr. Ray?

10. In your opinion, based on the information presented by Dr. Ray, what are the major advantages and disadvantages of homeschooling compared to traditional schooling?

Full Transcript:

Yvette Hampton:

Hey, everyone, this is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad that you are with me this week. I have a guest on this week that is truly an honor to have him with us. I cannot believe, actually, that it’s taken this long to have Dr. Brian Ray with us. We met years ago at a it was an HSLDA conference. And I’ve always been so just impressed with his work. I feel like I should have a stronger word than impressed, but that’s the word that comes to me right now. He has done so many things for the homeschool community, and if you are not yet familiar with him, you are going to be so encouraged this week. I know that many of you have probably heard him speak at homeschool conventions in the past, and he’s been in the homeschool world for a long, long time. And so I’m so grateful to have him on with us today. So we’re going to talk a lot about just the history of homeschooling and some research on what’s going on with homeschooling, what’s happened in the past, what the future might look like for homeschooling. We’re going to talk just a lot about his study of the homeschool world. Well, Dr. Brian Ray. Welcome to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad to have you with us. Introduce yourself to our audience. And when I say, like, you know, just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you and your family do. And I would really love for you to give a pretty good overview of NHERI, which is your organization, which we’ll talk about, but also your credentials, your qualifications, because that really matters in our talk this week and the things that we’re going to be discussing.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yep. Thank you so much, Yvette, for having me here. It’s great. Thank you for your work. I was just telling Yvette before we started talking how my wife said this morning, I’m so happy about all these young people who are doing the things we don’t even know about in the homeschool movement. And years ago, I don’t know, maybe ten years ago, we started hearing older people. Like I am saying, woe is us, woe is me. That we’re all the young people, the pioneers like we are. Well, you know what? God has raised you up. Here you are. He always has whomever he needs to do the things right. I mean, he’s just done it. And so I’m very thankful. I’m very thankful that there are younger folks who are so excited about God’s principles and raising children. But what happened was, okay, so I was institutionalized a vet, right? So I was raised in a Roman Catholic environment. Roman Catholic. Went to Roman Catholic schools. But from a very young age, god designs people a certain way. And I think a lot of us know early on what it might be. I’ve always loved animals I’ve always just wanted to watch them and play with them and study them and all those things. So I went after high school, went on to get a bachelor’s degree, bachelor of Science in Biology from the University of Puget Sound. From there, I went off and traveled all over the United States with my brother before many people watching this were even born. I’m sure this is back during the bicentennial of America, United States of America 1976. Traveled all over the US. For 100 days and 15,000 miles, came back and I taught, ended up teaching. I got a carpentry job, and then I ended up teaching at an outdoor school, 6th grade, public school students. I’ve always liked being around children and teaching children. Even in high school, I went down to a local grade school and tutored children in that elementary school. So that was just something I did there. And from there then I went on and got a Master of science degree in zoology at Ohio University. And therefore my research. I studied pack rats neatoma Florida. So I was really into mammology and learned all the mammals of North America and all that kind of thing. Now I finished that and want to do I want to be in a lab all my life, or would I like to maybe get out a little more and be with people or something? So from there now, in all that, Betsy and I got married in graduate school. Graduate school is when I got saved, when the Lord got me and brought me into his kingdom. And right after that, Betsy and I got married, came back to Oregon, and she was finishing a degree in teaching. And I decided, hey, why not? So I got a teaching degree in Oregon. So I taught for a few years, middle school and high school. So now you can see kind of the science and then the education formally, right? So I did that. And after three years of that, I got kind of I’m tired of know, teaching the same class over and over and over, and I need a challenge. I need a real challenge. So I decided to go and work on a PhD in science education at Oregon State University. So while there, I was teaching in biology, and I became a teaching assistant for the dean of education and all kinds of things, all kinds of experiences while there, Yvette, we were starting to have babies. And while we were there, I was very interested in alternatives. And Betsy and I have always kind of been interested in alternatives. Maybe you could say we are right wing Christian hippies. So we were interested in organic farming, and we were interested in drip irrigation on gardens. And while at Oregon State, I met some people who wanted somebody to teach their children part time. It turns out they were basically kind of left wing hippie homeschoolers, but nobody called it that yet. And from there I started looking into homeschooling and almost no research was done. So I pulled together a paper all about homeschooling and research on homeschooling and presented it as actually it was an exam for my doctoral studies. It was not my dissertation. And all of a sudden after I wrote that paper, I was an expert on homeschooling. So one way to be an expert is do something almost nobody else is doing and then you’re an expert. That’s basically what happened. During all of that, Betsy and I heard about homeschooling and I started studying homeschooling and one thing led to another. I did home research on homeschooling and bingo, as soon as I got my PhD, the NBC Today show called me and flew me from Oregon to New York City, picked me up in a limousine and put me on the NBC Today show with the president of the National Education Association, the big teachers union. That was amazing. I’d never done anything like that in my life. That was my introduction to the media and interviews with the media. Just two years after that, some other guys and I started the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute. NHERI. Nheri.org. So that’s kind of the preliminary before what happened, how we got there, god just led me from one thing to another. I went off to teach at Seattle Pacific well, I’ll just say a university in Seattle, and then started the Research Institute during that. And I went and taught at another college and kept the research institute going and about 25 years ago full time with the Research Institute.

Yvette Hampton:

That is an incredible story that you talked about before. And I don’t know that you would call it a story, but just your qualifications and what you did before even getting into the world of homeschooling. You are well educated. And the reason I wanted you to share all of that stuff is because I didn’t want people we’re going to talk a lot this week about your study of homeschooling. And I don’t want people to think that you’re just some guy off the street who maybe talked to ten different people. And now all of a sudden, you’re the expert on homeschooling. Your bio says that you are a leading international expert in research on homeschooling. And I would argue that you are the leading international expert in research on homeschooling. I don’t know anyone else who has done as much research as you in the past years. And we’re not just talking about the past ten years. We’re talking about you said, I think 33 years ago that you started researching homeschooling, is that right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I said that the institute was started 33 years ago, but I actually started studying homeschooling more like 39 years ago. So before I left out a step event you got it right, though about the research. I left out that in 1985 I started the journal Home School Researcher. And keep in mind it was three words, home school research. So that tells you something that was before it evolved in America to a one word. We used to have discussions and debates about whether it should be one word or two.

Yvette Hampton:

Well, we’ve seen that debate as well, even as recently as when we chose the name for the movie schoolhouse Rocked the Homeschool Revolution. I remember us talking about that. Like, dude, we put home school or homeschool and we did our own little bit of research and we thought, okay, most people are saying it as one word, and so we’re going to just go with homeschooling instead of homeschooling. Yes, you have been in this world for such a long time, and you have really put your whole, I would say most of your adult life’s work into researching homeschooling and not just the history of it. I mean, you talk about the history of it, but really you have a really deep understanding. And so talk for a little bit about your research that you’ve done. And I would love for you to take us not through every step, but kind of what it was like from the beginning, 39 years ago when you started researching it. And I know this is a big question, this could take a long time. We have about, what, 1012 minutes here. So we can continue this on, if we need to on Wednesday. But talk about your research on homeschooling and where you’ve seen it go.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Okay. Way back in that time machine around 1989 ish, I can’t say the exact date, but I was already into it. I was already into it. In fact, I wanted to do a study on homeschooling for my doctoral dissertation. But it’s a story we won’t get into, and I can never prove it. But they did not want me studying and having a dissertation coming out of Oregon State University on homeschooling. So I did my work just on public school kids, but on my own. On the side, I was collecting data on private school children and homeschool children with the same questions as my doctoral dissertation. So as soon as they handed me the dissertation, boom, I went out and started publishing on homeschooling. And it was kind of an off thing that almost nobody would look into. It was called the Theory of Reason to Action, and it was comparing home school, public school, and private school students in terms of their interest in doing science, in their interest in doing studying science, and their interest in doing laboratory science, and then what would motivate them. And as it turns out, and this is going to start to sound like a broken record, the homeschool children were more engaged and more interested in science than most of the others. I mean, that’s what I found. That was way back in around, like I said, 1988. Now, around that same time, just after that, Mike Farris, who was one of the founders of the home school legal defense association was making a speech somewhere or writing an article or something. He said, you know what we’re not we need in the home school movement? We need parents with their children to go down to their state legislatures and visit with legislators and so that they can see their children, they’re real, they’re not weirdos, all that kind of stuff. And he said, number two, we need good, solid, sound, empirical research evidence. Well, HSLDA was the main sponsor of one of my first big studies, and it was a nationwide study of homeschooling. And we got into all kinds of things like parents demographics, their income level, their ethnicity, education level, children reasons for homeschooling, and standardized academic achievement tests. Though even though those test scores are not the most important thing in the world. And I know you know that, Yvette it is something that the public and the courts and the legislatures want to know about, right? A lot of parents want to know too. Can my child I’m not a government certified teacher, I don’t even have a college degree can my children possibly learn from me to do basic math and reading and writing? So it was a big study. It was a first of its kind, and it got a lot of publicity. We went into the news, we made booklets, we did all those kinds of things. And we found out that on average, homeschool children do very well academically. We mailed out thousands and thousands of paper envelopes with stuffed with a family survey, and then probably three copies of each child’s survey with self addressed stamped envelopes. And then those got mailed in from all over the country to our little place in Seattle, Washington. We lived up there for three years, and then we had to open all those and then we had to hand enter all of that into probably an excel oh my goodness spreadsheet. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hand entries. That’s how it happened.

Yvette Hampton:

I can’t even imagine because you look at how easy it is. I mean, now you just can create a simple forum on Google, shoot it out, know thousands of people, and have answers within hours if you need them. I mean, it’s just amazing to see how technology has really helped in that way. I’m assuming this was back and I don’t remember when the date was, but this is probably around the same time that Dr. Dobson did his famous interview with Dr. Ray Moore, right where they started talking about homeschooling.

Dr. Brian Ray:

I would say that was more like probably closer to 1985. Ish around in there okay, maybe. Okay, yeah, close. So people started hearing about homeschooling from different angles, just alternative education discussions, ministries like focus on the Family, all that was bubbling and simmering and coming about at the same time. I met people who had never heard of homeschooling, and they started homeschooling they hadn’t heard about it on a radio nowhere. And they just said, God wanted us to do this. He did not want us to put them, especially in public schools. I met people all over the country who were doing that. Yes, it was around that time.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah. That’s incredible. I know that there have been so many hands who God has used to bring homeschooling to where it is today. And we take it for granted. We forget about those homeschool pioneers like yourself who really did pave the way before us so that we have our homeschool freedoms and so that we have what we need to homeschool successfully so that we can have those. Test scores so that we can have all of the things that we can take to our legislators and say, hey, look, this is what’s going on with us. Oftentimes you will hear of kids who were homeschooled back in the even I would say that the early two thousand s. And they’ll say, oh, my mom didn’t do a good job of homeschooling. I didn’t have a good education. I was deprived of my education. And so people will look at those kids and they will say, oh well, look at those homeschoolers, none of them are educated. Well, look at the public schoolers, many of them aren’t educated. Look at the private schoolers, many of them aren’t educated either. Sometimes I think it really just depends on the parents and on the child. And so I love your research because you really do show and prove that home education really does work in most cases. Not in all cases, but in most cases academically, it really does work for students. And so I want to kind of hang on that right now and I want to pull that into Wednesday. I want to kind of kick off Wednesday’s episode with that and talk about why Homeschooling does work according to the research that you’ve done. Homeschooled kids, like we talked about on Monday, across the board, overall, homeschool kids do really well. So talk about what your research really has taught you, what it tells us as the world of homeschooling.

Dr. Brian Ray:

The first thing that happened in my research and I want to mention and I mentioned this event earlier that I’m going to talk a lot about my research, but there are a lot of other people studying homeschooling now. There was a time when there were very few of us and I knew all their names, basically. But now there are dozens, if not hundreds of people around the world studying homeschooling. So in the early days of the modern homeschool movement, put that in context because homeschooling is thousands of years old, people just wanted to know, well, who are they? What do they quote look like? What are their demographics? We were just asking questions like, well, how old are you parent? How many children do you have? What’s your ethnicity background? What’s your education level? What’s your family income, just all those basic statistics. Everybody kind of wants to know about a group of people so we can generalize and so we can pigeonhole you, so we can have a measure of central tendency. So that was the first phase of research. And way back in 25, 30 years ago, it looked pretty like in America, I’m talking about United States, okay? It looked pretty much, I call it overall middle classy, overall disproportionately, white, Anglo, overall, maybe just a little bit more education level the parents than the general public. Kind of like that. Now, remember, whenever we say generalizations, there’s always a variety. Because to get an average, you have to have one end and the other end. So people just always have to remember that. Okay, way back then, also, we wanted to know, well, all right, this is what they kind of quote, look like. But how is it possible that people who are not government certified teachers could possibly teach their children anything like academics? So we wanted to ask that question, how are they doing academically? And even though we can have all kinds of debates about achievement tests, let’s face it, people still use achievement tests in the public schools, in the private schools. And in some states, it’s actually by law, you’re supposed to do that. So we started looking at academic achievement test scores. And right from the very get go, we were finding that homeschool children on average were 15 to 25 percentile percentile points above the public school average, which is 50. And if you’re not familiar with test scores, go study it. But 50th percentile is the average. That doesn’t mean 50% correct on a test. It just means if you’re at the 50th, you did better than 50% of the kids and you did worse than 50% of the kids, roughly.

Yvette Hampton:

Right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

So that’s what we found. And others started finding the same thing. Now, as the research world kind of progressed, we wanted to have more sophisticated studies. But also then people asked, as you know, Yvette, everybody kind of knows the s question. What about socialization? Socialization? Everybody knows it. It’s a big inside joke in the home school world. What about that? Okay, for the last, whatever, 100. Now, 20 years, most kids have been institutionalized to be with same age peers, plus or minus eleven months their age. So what’s going to happen to them if they’re not doing that all day? So a lot of researchers, I did much less of that kind of research. So I might have asked quantitative things like, what are the activities your children are involved in? How many per week, whatever. I asked kind of quantitative approaches to that.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Others did other research like, well, what about self concepts, self esteem? What about actual behaviors acting out too aggressively or not assertively enough? And all these different studies. Fascinating studies. Fascinating studies. But when I did a review of research a few years back, 87% of the studies, peer reviewed studies, found that home school students were better in terms of social and emotional development than their institutional school peers. And if we have time, maybe you could ask me why. Okay, if we get to that, I.

Yvette Hampton:

Do want to know why. But my question also is, as you’re doing this research, obviously you’re researching homeschool families. Are you also at the same time researching public school, private school families with the exact same questions?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Okay, so the way most of this research works is if you do a standardized achievement test and you put that in your studies, already, you have the norm for public school students because that is the norm for that test. So the average is 50. So then you would just mainly collect data on home school kids. Now, a few researchers, this takes more time, and it usually takes more money if you could get fresh, brand new test data scores from both home school and institutional school at the same time. A few studies have done that, but that’s a lot more intensive. And like I said, it takes money to spend all the time getting all that together. Let’s say there’s an inventory, or most people call them a test. All right, let’s just call it a test. A test that deals with self concept, right? Well, already researchers have developed these tests, and they do what’s called studies of validity and reliability on these tests. So they exist out there. And already, mainly it’s being used on public school children. So you have the scores and the norming group for those children. So now you pull in, let’s say it’s been normed for nine to twelve year olds. So now some researcher goes and gets a bunch of nine to twelve year old homeschool kids and gives them the same inventory and compares them to that norm group. That’s one way. And the other way, just like an achievement, you could have live, brand new, fresh subjects in the study. It could be a group of 25 homeschool children and 25 public school children and watch them, see how they interact, behave, play, don’t play, fight, all those things. It’s kind of fun to be research because you get to do all of that. So it’s both preset scores from tests that have been developed already, and sometimes it’s fresh, brand new data comparing the two groups live on the spot.

Yvette Hampton:

Well, that’s really cool. So sometimes it’s not just a check a box kind of survey. You actually get to observe people in real life and how they’re responding to other people, how they’re responding to their peers, and maybe to their parents and to their teachers if they’re in school. Things like that.

Dr. Brian Ray:

One that I got to do was kind of fun. The Montana homeschool. So I’ve done several big nationwide studies, but I’ve done several state specific studies, and some homeschool leaders in Montana are very forward thinking. Many years ago, they asked me to do this study where I actually brought in because some people would say, well, these homeschool kids do well just because only the smart, brilliant parents or the parents who cheat would be in your study. So we got a group of students that were just sort of like a convenient sample, and then we had another group, and they were tested under a watchful eye, making sure nobody was doing anything unseemly or cheating and all that kind of stuff. And we found out they scored almost identically to one another. So that was kind of fun to have. A new group of data, new group of students, a new group of data. So studies come in all shapes and forms and sizes and approaches.

Yvette Hampton:

In your research, you have found that overall, homeschool kids do really well, and oftentimes they do better than their peers in public school or private school. Why do you think that is?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I think it’s one of the most fascinating things and it’s the hardest thing to answer in research. We could say what? We can have descriptive statistics. The question is why? Why does it come out that way? Because when you look back 35, 40 years ago, there were a lot of negative people toward homeschooling, a lot of skeptics.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

I mean, even some people start homeschooling were skeptical of themselves. But I kind of look at it this way. Many years ago, I started going into the body of research on what makes for effective teaching and learning in institutional schools. Okay? So it’s not necessarily going to be the same, but that’s all we had, right? For a long time, we mainly had institutional schools in America and especially during the era of research. And I just want to just say leave out the H word, leave out homeschooling and just say, ask any public school teacher, private school teacher, government certified teacher, principal of a school, superintendent of a school district, whatever. Just start asking a bunch of questions. When do children usually learn more? When they’re in a group of 28 or when they’re in a group of three or four or five. When do children usually learn more? When they have more turns of conversation between adult and student or less. They all know the answer. When do children usually learn more? When they can master a subject or a skill? Before they move on? Or when they have to move on. Just because it’s a new day or a new semester. It doesn’t matter whether they learned it or not. When do children usually learn more? When there are fewer distractions or more distractions in their environment. We all know the answer. When do children usually learn more? When the curriculum or the pedagogical approach is customized for that child’s learning style, strengths, weaknesses, dreams and desires or not customized? We all know the answer. When do children learn more? When they’re being bullied or they’re not being bullied. We all know the answer. When do children learn more? When they’re being psychologically stressed out by teachers in a school system or not? And we all know the answer. So when do children learn more? When they’re being pressured to get into drugs and alcohol or not? When do children usually learn more? When they’re being pressured to get into premarital sex or not? We all know the answer. So you just start going down through this whole list of questions and say, well, which side of those answers does institute schooling lie on more? And which one does parent led home based education lie on more? And systemically by its very nature, parent directed home based education fits the bill more. So really, Yvette, the question is, why would homeschool children not do better?

Yvette Hampton:

Right? That’s fantastic. And I would know as the big, pretty bow on the end of that, who learns more? The kid whose parent loves them more than anyone else and knows them better than anyone else? Yes. There are some excellent teachers out there. There really are. We have a lot of friends who are teachers. We have a lot of friends who are administrators, and they have such a heart for the children that are in their classrooms, but they cannot it’s impossible for them to love your child the way that you love them and to cater to their needs the way that you do as their parent. I’m glad you brought that up.

Dr. Brian Ray:

The list I went through is not an attack on certified teachers.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

It just shows us that no matter how hard we try in institutional schools, we cannot replicate what I just went through. I mean, I’ve been a classroom teacher. You can’t do it. You just can’t do it. It’s impossible. And if you tried to make the classrooms that small, then they’d have to raise your property taxes fivefold.

Yvette Hampton:

So let’s park there as a parent for a minute, because you were a homeschool parent, right? You have eight kids, is that correct?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

You homeschooled your eight children. What was it that kept you homeschooling? Was it all of your research? What kept you and Betsy in this world of home education? And talk a little bit about your experience as a homeschool dad, especially back in the day when it know, as mainstream as it is now?

Dr. Brian Ray:

There were, I would say, a few core things to answer your question. First, no, it was not my mean, Yvette, I’ve told so many people from the speaker’s podium over and over and over and over. High test scores are not the main reason for homeschooling. It’s not. I mean, I’m a Christian, so what’s driven Betsy and me has been theology and philosophy, really? And actually just enjoying our yeah, we want to be with our children. Okay. That’s the way it’s supposed to be, right?

Yvette Hampton:

That’s why you had them.

Dr. Brian Ray:

They’re a blessing from God. They’re a blessing to be. Around. I don’t mean they’re always wonderful to be around, I just mean it’s a blessing to be with our children. Yeah, it’s good to be with them. So when I first got saved, when God brought me into his kingdom, I knew immediately that the Bible, the Word of God, is what is sufficient for everything we need to know and how to live and how to enjoy God and let Him change us and sanctify us. I knew that. So if you’re a Christian, there’s no choice. You must be a scripturalist. You have to go to God’s word to answer questions about everything in life. And so way back, I asked myself, what does the Word of God say about the education of children? And education is a very holistic, broad term that has to do with things like academics, reading, writing, arithmetic, math, whatever. And it has to do with values, morals, ways of thinking, how to do things, how to treat your neighbor. All of that is a part of education. And I will challenge any Christian who’s thinking, I don’t want to home school or I shouldn’t have to homeschool, or there’s nothing in the Bible about education. There’s a lot in the Bible about education all through the Proverbs, in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy, in the Psalms, in the New Testament. There’s a lot about the education of children. And over and over and over again I ask people, who does God say, has the let’s quit using the word right? Who has the duty and the responsibility responsibility to be the main educators of children? And I present this, and you’re going to have to say it’s the parents. And then you say in the Bible, does God give you the choice to just delegate it to anybody you want? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So whether it was easier or harder, whatever, whether children were fussing with us or happy with us as parents, it was the philosophy and the theology and the desire to be together as a family that really drove us. And I like to call it parent directed home based education. Discipleship. Now, that’s just a clunky mouthful, but homeschooling, the word homeschooling does not capture it at all because it’s not institutional school at home.

Yvette Hampton:

Right? It’s not called home academics.

Dr. Brian Ray:

No.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, no, you’re right. One of my favorite lines in the movie is where Heidi says where she got to the point where she realized that homeschooling was discipleship. And I think that’s exactly what you’re talking about. And so many parents, and I’ve talked to many of them parents who will say, I don’t think I’m called to homeschool. And we’ll say, you are called to homeschool if you love and I don’t say that if you love Jesus and you don’t homeschool, clearly you’re not a Christian. I don’t mean it like that. I’m just saying if you are a professing Christian and you are committed to discipling the hearts of your children, it’s impossible to do that all of the time when they’re away from you, most of the time. And God really does give us the responsibility, like you said, and the duty to home educate, to disciple our kids, to teach them His Word day in and day out, when they walk, when they sit, when they wake up. Psalm One says to not walk in the counsel of the wicked. Yes, it is so important.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah, there’s a lot on this event. I used to teach a philosophy of education course at a Christian college for five years. And every year I got two sections of people who are planning to be teachers. So I got to kind of teach and indoctrinate ten groups of teachers. And when we would go through the Bible on education, on children, many, many of them, and they were raised in mostly Christian homes, and a lot of them went to Christian schools and we would just be reading the Bible and studying. And I would not mention homeschooling, but most of them by the end of it said, you’re just talking about homeschooling. I said, I never used the word. You just came to that conclusion on your own because you’re studying the word of God. And I’d like to challenge people gently but firmly. Parents who have, whether their oldest child is three years old or their oldest child is twelve year olds, they might say something like, well, I just don’t know. Why would home school I want to flip the question around. Why would you send your child away from home, away from you to be taught, trained and indoctrinated in a system that is not designed and never was designed to lift up the name of the King of the universe, Jesus Christ, and has never been and never will be designed to preach the gospel to your child? Why would you send your child away to know that’s really the question. And right now in that question, I’m leaving out Christian schools for now, because that’s a little more complicated conversation. But that’s the real question for parents who profess Christ, what does God say in the Bible? Not what does somebody else say? And why would you send your child away to be taught, trained and indoctrinated by mainly people who hate Jesus?

Yvette Hampton:

And we talked about why you and your wife Betsy chose to homeschool. And then we talked a little bit about the philosophy of home education. That’s kind of what we ended on yesterday, on Wednesday. Do you have any more to add to the philosophy of homeschool?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes, I said something at the end that I wanted to flip the question around for parents, especially those who profess to be Christians, when they say, well, I’m not sure I should homeschool, or why would I home school? And I asked them, let’s flip it around and say, why would you send your child away from you and away from home for 6 hours per day, maybe more on a bus ride and all that to be taught, trained and indoctrinated by people who do not like the gospel. They do not like the good news of Jesus Christ. I even said something like hate Jesus. Well, remember Jesus said you’re either with me or you’re against me. Right? So I’m not making up stuff here. But I also wanted to say that it’s important for everybody I don’t care whether right now listening is a new Ager or a secular humanist or a pagan, or a Wiccan, or a Christian or a Muslim or a Mormon or a Jew, it doesn’t matter. All education, whether it’s being done at a thing we call public school or at a thing we call private school or by homeschooling, is the teaching, training and indoctrination of children. That is the truth. And I know it really bothers people when I use the word indoctrination, but all that means go look it up. There are different definitions of indoctrination. I’m not talking about under a bright white light. You haven’t been able to eat for 39 hours and they’re keeping 120 degrees in your cell, your isolation. So that’s not what there’s. Indoctrination just means putting in doctrine, putting in propositions, putting in concepts, putting in principles into a child’s heart and mind. We all know that’s what’s being done in private schools. We all know that’s what’s being done in public schools. We all know that’s what’s being done in homeschooling. So if you’re a professing Christian, you are supposed to be doing that the biblical worldview with your children. And regardless of whether you’re a Christian, I’m glad that you’re considering homeschooling. Because you see, parent directed home based education is a design by God. It’s not something that people in the last 35 years in America made up. It’s not just this fabricated idea. And actually a parent directed home based education improves our local communities. It doesn’t matter what your worldview is, it improves our nations all over the country. So I wanted to say that about it, that it is a good thing for communities and societies regardless of the test scores. I’m glad what you said about the test scores. Yvette, I mean, on average, statistically speaking, let’s say your child is below average on a test, he or she would do even worse probably if in public school. So just keep that in mind, right?

Yvette Hampton:

So you’re talking about indoctrination and you gave a fantastic definition of it. I want to actually read out of Webster’s Dictionary the definition of indoctrination is this it’s teaching a doctrine, principle or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view. And so you hit it right on the nail. I mean, that’s exactly what our kids are being indoctrinated by somebody. It doesn’t matter whether they’re being indoctrinated by the public school, private school, social media, or their parents. Every child is being indoctrinated somewhere by someone. And so as their parents. We have to take that role on and say, okay, this is where indoctrination is going to happen in our kids lives. It’s going to happen in our home under the umbrella of God’s Word, and we are going to indoctrinate our kids, and really, we’re just training them up right as God has called us to do so. And with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can do this. I know it’s a scary thing. It’s scary for me. It’s scary for pretty much every homeschool mom I’ve ever met. But by God’s grace, we can continue doing this. All right, so we’ve talked about, again, the academic achievement. Let’s talk you touched just a little bit on this, but I want to dig into this a little more about the social and emotional development of homeschool kids. What have you found with your research on that?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Something you just said made me I was ready. You gave me a segue of it. You said it can be scary for parents to think about doing this homeschooling thing. I don’t think you meant this, but it could imply in people’s head, I’m doing it all alone. No, you’re not. You’re not doing it all alone. If you’re a human being, you are a social creature, right? And if you are a Christian, you’re engaged in what we call a local church. And when you home school and you don’t quit homeschooling, that means you never send them away to be indoctrinated by somebody else, or you decide to stop them being indoctrinated by somebody else, and you bring them back home. You have all kinds of possibilities. You have what everybody knows now we call home school co ops. And I don’t even know if people know what that means. Cooperative. That’s what it means. It’s a cooperative. So you do things together. You have colleagues, you collaborate, you have fun know, you help each other, cry on each other’s shoulders. You give each other ideas. You maybe say, I hate math, and I don’t even want to learn math, so I’m going to have Susie Q in my co op. She’s going to teach the math class in our group, and then you have fun doing it together. So that is my segue to the research on homeschooling. The implication by the negative critics and the naysayers from 39 years ago till now is homeschool people hide in Sellers in northern Idaho, and they never interact with anybody. It is so absolutely false. It’s a tiny, tiny minority of homeschoolers who might do something like that. I’m not saying there are none, but it’s a tiny minority. And even then, hey, look it go back 180 years in American history. There were people who lived basically alone, a mom and a dad and maybe 23456 children, and they maybe got look.

Yvette Hampton:

At the Ingalls family.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah. And they maybe got to see somebody once a week or once a month or whatever. They were law abiding. Citizens. They learned how to read. They knew how to work hard. They knew how to be more. What more do you want? I mean, what more do we get than that? Or do we even get that from half the graduates of public schools? Maybe not. Okay, so we have the fact that homeschooling interact with other people, and they have a mom and a dad. And I think a really key important thing for people to keep in mind here is that most of the time when children go to institutional schooling, they model much of the time after peers. So seven year olds are looking at seven year olds as their models. Twelve year olds are looking at twelve year olds as their models. But what would we all say? Do you want your child to model after a mature, kind, hardworking adult or after a seven year old? You want them to model after the adult. So we’re all kind of messed up in our heads about what this whole peer interaction thing is about. There’s no research. I’ve looked and looked and looked and looked. There’s no research anywhere that shows children need to be with 25 other kids plus or minus eleven months their age turn out to be how to read, knowing how to read, knowing how to do basic math, knowing how to be law abiding, knowing how to keep the golden rule. There’s no research like that. And now we have the opposite. We have almost 40 years of research saying that when you look at homeschool kids, they’re doing better in terms of social and emotional development. They model after adults. They know how to interact with adults, they know how to interact with babies. They’re respectful, they’re kind. I’m not saying they’re all perfect. Nobody’s saying that. But on average, they’re doing better.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, I agree. And I see that in a lot of ways. I’m going to kind of twist this question a little bit for you because I’m curious to know if you’ve done any research on this specifically. I feel like kids in general, and I may be opening up a huge can of worms here, and if I am, just say we’ll talk about that on another episode, and then we’ll have to come back. Kids today, I think as I’m watching my girls who are both in the teen ish years, one’s closer to being an adult, one’s just entering into her teen years. There are two things that I see that have really impacted them socially and emotionally. And I don’t this is not just home school related. This is kids related, is COVID and social media. Those two things, I think, have had a great impact on kids emotions and their social anxiety, ability to socialize with other kids. Have you done any research on that end at all? And if so, what are you seeing?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I’ve only reviewed research, not personally done research. But it’s fascinating to ask that I just read today another set of statistics from the CDC, the federal government. Not that I necessarily trust them, but anyway, depression rates are completely gone out of off the charts. It’s like at least 20 some percent of adults are depressed or more depressed. There’s research that’s very clear from the past year that researchers have been doing about teens. The suicidal ideation is up statistically in the last few years, and it was already going up, it looks like. I don’t think there’s any way for anybody to make an argument that institutionalizing children in these places we call school, where most of us went, is improving their psychological health. I don’t know where there’s an argument for that. When you look at the government lockdowns and mask mandates and injection mandates and all that, and scaring the children and adults half to death, that to even interact with people would make them sick. And I’m going to be careful here, too. But it has had a very negative effect and many research are now admitting that the same things that they once called conspiracy theory are true. And so it’s not good at all. There’s been a lot of that. And the social media Yvette, we know from research that there’s addiction, it’s not health, it’s negative to their social skills. So I really would pray that parents here’s the problem even parents who profess to be Christians and who homeschool their children have to admit that they have been slowly boiled in the water like that frog we all know about. And I’m guessing a large portion of people listening right now are way more on screen time and social media than they ever should be. They need to get off of it and get outside with their children, do things with their children. Not only we have all that. I mean, you’ve got me on a roll, NHERI Vet. Not only do we have that, we have skyrocketing obesity rates. The majority of American young adults cannot even get into the military now because they’re obese. All of this is tied together. It’s all tied together. And it’s also tied into the fact that many parents, including some watching, are more worried about what their children think than what they know is good for their children. So when they say, hey, Billy and Susie, get outside and you’re going to go play for 15 minutes, I don’t want you, then the parents buckle to that, but they’ve got to say you’re going out. And then even better would be if the parents would go outside with them. But you’ve got me on a topic and there’s a lot of negative impact, especially over the last few years from both government controls on those things we were just talking about and children and parents spending way too much time sitting and looking at the screen.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, and social media is you’re right on all of that. When I think about kids being in school, public or private, social media is one of the reasons now that we can add to the list of not having our kids in school because they are exposed to everything. There are no limits. Teachers can try to take phones away. Administration can try to put lockdowns on them, whatever. It’s never going to happen.

Dr. Brian Ray:

It doesn’t work.

Yvette Hampton:

As long as kids have phones in their pockets and in their backpacks, all it takes is sneaking into the bathroom and pulling up some websites, even if they’re not looking at anything inappropriate. It’s just the addiction of all the kids standing around on their phones all Ray long. And so all the kids feel like they have to do that because it’s what all their friends are doing. And you don’t want to be the odd, weird one out who’s not on your phone. And so, I mean, it just is so destructive. And so you talk about weird.

Dr. Brian Ray:

There’s research on it, home school research on it. It’s harming them. It’s harming them all the way through. So homeschoolers, you have the option to not do that. And mom and dad, you have the option to be disciplined yourself. So when you all get home at night and you say, hey, there’s the basket over there. And if your children do have cell phones and mom and dad, your cell phone goes in the basket for a couple of hours together as a family.

Yvette Hampton:

I want to talk about the success of the homeschooled kids now who are into their adulthood, because we’ve heard, of course, that there are adults who are like, oh, I hated being homeschooled. It was a terrible thing for me. And then you’ve got adults who are like, I was homeschooled my whole life, and it’s been amazing. And you have definitely both ends of the spectrum. And then, of course, as homeschooled parents today, we worry about whether or not our kids will make it into adulthood successfully and what that will look like. And when I say successfully, I know Dr. Ray’s heart is the same. I don’t mean being able to get the best education with the best job so that they can make the most money and have the biggest house and the best vacations. I mean, success according to what God has called them to do. So talk a little bit about success of the homeschool in adulthood now that.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Has been studied in many different ways. I’ve got to do a few of those studies, and some others have done it. And so they range all the way from, okay, now you’re an adult. How often are you depressed? Okay, how much are you into alcohol abuse? If you went to college, what’s your GPA? And did you finish college? Do you vote? Do you trust the government? I mean, there’s so many fascinating studies about adults, but here’s all of those together, when you put them all in one big pot, stirred up, get this 169 percent of peer reviewed studies on adults who are home educated show that they are doing better statistically than those who went to institutional schools. So in other words, the large majority of the studies say they’re doing better. So what about the other 31% of the studies? Most of those say, hey, no difference in what we measured. So in other words, they’re doing as well or better less addiction to drugs, less depression, less problems acting out toward other people doing better in college, if they go to college. So that’s just what we know so far. I mean, again, Yvette, everybody has to remember this does not mean all people who are homeschooled are rocket scientists who love life and never get depressed. It doesn’t mean that. But it does mean, as a group, there’s something about home education that is helping people more than other people. And you kind of mentioned something there for a minute about we have all these stories of, well, I was home educated. I hated it. Well, I was home educated. The best thing since sliced bread. Remember, those are just anecdotes and now this is my experience. I’m going to tell you my experience. Most of the ones who say it was bad, they were raised by Christian parents, and they themselves now, these adults are not Christians, okay? They’re making complaints about the philosophy under which they were raised. Remember all the schools we said, whether they’re public schooling, private school, or homeschooling, teach a philosophy to their children. And you know what? Home of them, when they get older, reject that philosophy. Some people who are raised in public schools who are taught a secular humanistic, evolutionistic status, Marxist LGBTQ philosophy, they reject that and they become Christians. Right?

Yvette Hampton:

Right.

Dr. Brian Ray:

So you have the same thing with homeschooling. But overall, if you look at it kind of from a research, quantitative, qualitative perspective, the home educated are doing better in adulthood.

Yvette Hampton:

That’s exciting news. It brings hope, I think. I know for myself as a homeschool mom, that gives me a lot of hope. Let’s talk really quickly about the changing demographics of the homeschool community because you have seen it change drastically in 39 years. I mean, we’ve seen the public school system change drastically, but homeschooling, I think, has really changed drastically. Talk about that for a minute.

Dr. Brian Ray:

At the beginning of the modern homeschool movement, there was a stereotype, and there’s always a little bit of truth to a stereotype.

Yvette Hampton:

Right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Homeschoolers were either kind of like left wing, hippie wear birkenstocks, move to the country, blow up your TV, and raise a know that was one stereotype. Or they were more like right wing, white, Christian fundamentalist Bible thumpers. All right? So those stereotypes are not exactly true, but there was some truth to it. There was always the variety. But keep in mind, there was always the variety. So what we’ve seen over the last 35 to 40 years, the variety is there, and it’s just increasing, whereas maybe I’m just going to make up numbers here. Maybe 20 years ago, you would not have found online well, there wasn’t so much online, but anyway, you would not have found a Wiccan home school group, or you would not have found a Naturist home school group. Now you can find almost everything online. You can find almost everything online. In terms of philosophy. Why do I mention philosophy? Because the philosophy drives almost everything. Right. So philosophy drives what kind of curriculum you choose and how you sure.

Yvette Hampton:

It goes back to indoctrination.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Sure. And remember, we’ve had john Holtz was one of the first people promoting what we call homeschooling today, and he talked about unschooling. We’ve had that for 40 years. Right. I mean, that’s a big difference from structured school at home. So we’ve had all these varieties. Another significant change we’ve seen is that many more people from different ethnicities are homeschooling or different skin colors, whatever you want to call it. Way more of that than we saw before. Yes, it did look very white Anglo before, and now it does. Not anymore. I mean, homeschooling has grown tremendously, especially in the last five. Very diverse amongst black families. African Americans and Hispanics are coming. Most people don’t even talk about down. When you go to the Southwest and you speak at a homeschool conference in the Southwest, people don’t even specify Hispanic or not. They’re just NHERI. It’s interesting. That tells you something about our culture. But anyway, so we’ve seen changes in that. We’ve seen a big variety in what’s available to people online. So that kind of alters what people do and how they do it. There’s just a lot of changes. Many changes.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, many good changes. Some not so exciting, not so good. But I think overall the changes have been really good. And I think from personally, the change that I think is the most exciting is the acceptance of homeschooling is that people no longer look at homeschoolers and are like, what you’re doing? What you’re teaching your kids at home? I mean, I’m out with my kids all the time, and this is our 13th year of homeschooling, and we lived in Southern California. And always, I mean, since my girls were in kindergarten, we always have made our way out into the grocery store, into the library, wherever. We just have done life. And we’ve had a couple of people give us funny looks, oh, are you girls out of school today? And they’ll say, no, we’re homeschooling. Oh, okay. But not so much anymore. I mean, it is just so widely accepted, and not even just accepted, it’s celebrated. I think more and more parents, more and more people, I should say, are opening up their eyes to what’s happening in the public schools. And they’re going, oh. And almost always they say, oh, I have a neighborhood home schools, or my niece home school or my daughter home school. And it’s like they’re excited to know someone else who’s part of this club. So that’s really cool. All right, I want to end with one question. This is kind of a tough topic, and I don’t want to park too long NHERI. But I think that it needs to be addressed. And I think in your research, you have tackled this a little bit, and people will talk about child abuse and neglect in homeschool families, and of course, you’ll hear stories about these kids, which it’s so heartbreaking. They have been terribly abused, and the parents will state, oh, well, we homeschool them because people always ask the question, well, why weren’t they in school? Why didn’t anybody notice that these kids were being chained up or rocked up or neglected, malnourished, whatever? And they put that homeschool label on them. And of course, kids who are in institutional school, there’s lots of child abuse that goes on there too. Have you done specific research when it comes to the area of child abuse and neglect of institutionally schooled kids versus homeschool kids?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes, it’s a study that I had been thinking about doing for probably at least ten years of it. And finally okay, wow. A couple of years ago, we got on it, and people like people watching right now gave us money to support the study. Before I get into that, because I know we got to go fast. First of all yes. In public school families, home school families, and private school families, sometimes parents do evil things, and it’s evil and it’s bad. So let’s just get that off on the table and off the table. So no one’s excusing that ever, right?

Yvette Hampton:

No justification for it, ever.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah. We wanted to know from a quantitative perspective and to help an honest discussion for policy and law. Okay, so is there any difference? Because we’ve had people, including professors, just throw out wild claims that homeschooling either disproportionately abuse their children or it’s a way to really hide it, that kind of thing. So we really want to know about so my colleague and I, Dr. Denise Shaquille, worked on this, and we started collecting data, and we finally got it done and published it in a peer reviewed journal last fall. You can find it, and it’s posted online, and it’s open access, which means anybody can read it, and you don’t have to pay $40 to read the article, which is wonderful. This is what we found, two big, major findings. Our subjects are adults, okay? And they’re looking back at growing up. There are a lot of reasons for doing it that way. It’s extremely difficult to query minors about this kind of thing. So we worked with adults and told us they told us what happened to them growing up. First major finding when you statistically put into the model demographics, like parent education level, family income, how many years children had been or not been in foster care, ethnicity. Race, all those things when you put those in like you should do in most any study, no significant difference between those who were institutionally schooled and those who were homeschool in terms of abuse and neglect growing up. No significant difference. Now we’ll come back to that second major finding for the no significantly different amount of abuse that had been perpetrated on those who were homeschooled. So remember, no significant difference home school versus schooled for those who were homeschooled, it was not being done the evil things by their parents in the home. It was being done to them outside the home at places like schools or museums or sports or those kinds of things. So that’s the second major of two major findings of the study. So what does that mean? People who wanted homeschooling to look good were a little disappointed and people who wanted institutional schooling to look good were kind of disappointed. No significant difference. And then for that which was happening to those who were homeschool, that was actually a positive finding that it was not happening at home, it was happening outside the home. So that’s really a big deal. It doesn’t sound like the end of the world kind of study, but it’s a big deal because it’s the opposite of what a lot of negative critics were claiming without, you know, first of know, we presume in America that people are innocent until they’re found guilty. And the biblical role of government is to punish evildoers. It’s not to try to catch somebody who might do something wrong. We just don’t work that way. So the people who want to control homeschooling thinking maybe it’ll do better for life, I mean, they’re wrong in terms of constitutional philosophy and they’re wrong in terms of biblical philosophy. Secondly, now we have concrete evidence that there’s no problem. There’s no problem to try to solve.

Discipline / Discipleship / Heart Training

I recently received an email from a parent asking if we had any podcast episodes on discipline. The answer is a complicated one, because so much of our content is focused on the nuts and bolts of training the hearts of our children – on discipling them to have a Biblical worldview and Christ-like character. But I don’t think we have ever focused on specific methods of discipline. Quite honestly, I don’t think we ever will.

Our objective is always to point you to God’s Word as the perfect standard for parenting, discipline, marriage, and every area of life. And God’s Word has a lot to say on the subject. But even more, we know that focusing on discipline methods misses the much of the point. If we aren’t laying a Biblical foundation of Godly thinking and behavior, we are treating the symptoms without curing the disease.

Further, when we focus on discipline methods, we open ourselves and our guests up to misinterpretation and misapplication, which can be extraordinarily harmful.

It is also important to remember that the discipline process often reveals areas in our own lives where we need to grow as parents. For this purposed, discipline, discipleship, heart training are a life-long endeavor that benefit our whole families, not just our children. May we endeavor to ALL follow Christ more closely and to grow together toward Christ-likeness.

That said, as I was searching the archives to answer this mother’s email, I found a wealth of excellent episodes that cover the core of discipline, which is heart training and discipleship, from a variety of helpful perspectives.

I pray these episodes are a blessing to your family, and even more, I pray that they result in ETERNAL fruit in your children! To God be all the glory!

Matthew McDill – From Discipline to Discipleship

Ginger Hubbard – Parenting for Eternity

Mindy Dunn – Using the Bible to Train our Children

Rachael Carman – Parenting “That Child”

Ginger Hubbard – Parenting Rebellious Teens

Matthew McDill – Sibling Relationships

Connie Albers – Getting to the Hearts of our Children

Connie Albers – Parenting Teenagers

Durenda Wilson – Nurturing Sibling Relationships

Israel Wayne – Raising Them Up: Biblical Parenting

Israel Wayne- Establishing a Biblical Home/Avoiding Common Parenting Mistakes

For more on this topic, please check out the full Family Series on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast.

Finding Identity and Redemption in the Homeschooling Journey

“If you make homeschooling an ultimate thing instead of a subordinate thing in service of the truth of God and the love of God in Christ Jesus for sinners, that kind of truth and knowledge that homeschooling itself will be perverted.”

Missy Andrews

In a captivating and thought-provoking interview on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, host Yvette Hampton delves into a transformative conversation with homeschooling advocate and leader Missy Andrews. This interview explores Missy’s personal journey as a homeschool mom and delves into the deep significance of knowing one’s true identity in Christ. With years of experience in the homeschool community and a passion for discipleship, Missy Andrews shares her insights, struggles, and growth, offering a beacon of hope and grace for moms and dads walking the homeschooling path.

Exploring Identity and Searching for Love:

From the very start, Missy Andrews emphasizes the importance of understanding one’s identity and seeking validation from the right source. She poignantly remarks, “Whatever we look to besides God to define us is too small to meet our needs.” Missy describes how people often search for love and acceptance in the wrong places, such as success in jobs or marriages, only to find themselves unfulfilled and weary. This important lesson forms the foundation for her journey and perception of homeschooling.

The Homeschooling Journey:

Missy candidly reflects on her 26 years of homeschooling, acknowledging both its noble purpose and the challenges she encountered along the way. With heartfelt honesty, she confesses that she made the mistake of intertwining the virtue of homeschooling with her own personal virtue, leading to a skewed understanding of her own identity and struggles with sin. She recounts the pressure she felt to succeed as a homeschool mom and the heartbreaking recognition of unintentionally making her child a means to her own achievements.

Lessons Learned and Grace Discovered:

“Education can’t save you, but it can put you in the proper mindset to see that you need saving.”

Missy Andrews

Through hardship and self-reflection, Missy Andrews shares a beautiful transformation. She learned the importance of self-recognition and the acceptance of her own personal sin, leading her to the liberating understanding that true identity and grace come from God alone. Missy recounts the transformation her child experienced after wrestling with their own identity and ultimately finding value in Christ. She affirms, “Our hope lies in the historical life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, as well as in the daily presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.”

Quotes that Illuminate the Journey:

“Whatever we look to besides God to define us is too small to meet our needs.” – Missy Andrews

“Our hope lies in the historical life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, as well as in the daily presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.” – Missy Andrews

Conclusion:

“Identity is received…from God, who created us as we are and who has a purpose for our life.”

Missy Andrews

The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast episode featuring Missy Andrews is a powerful exploration of identity, redemption, and the homeschooling journey. Missy’s story serves as a reminder that even in the noble pursuit of homeschooling, it is imperative to recognize the temptation of idolizing our own achievements and instead find our worth and purpose in God’s love and grace. By openly embracing personal flaws and redirecting focus to God’s guiding hand, homeschooling becomes a delightful journey of learning, character development, and spiritual growth.

As Missy Andrews poignantly expresses, “Our hope lies in the historical life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.” It is through the transformative power of Christ’s love and daily reliance on the Holy Spirit that we find true fulfillment and freedom. Whether you are a homeschooling parent or simply seeking wisdom and inspiration, this episode of the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast offers a refreshing perspective that resonates deeply with all seekers of truth and purpose.

Recommended Resources:

My Divine Comedy: A Mother’s Homeschooling Journey, by Missy Andrews

CenterForLit.com

Education: Does God Have an Opinion? by Israel Wayne

The Art of Learning – Missy Andrews, Part 1

The Art of Learning – Missy Andrews, Part 2

Avoiding the Pitfalls – Missy Andrews, Part 3

Discussion Questions:

Want to use this interview for a co-op meeting or small group? Here are a few discussion questions to keep the conversation moving in the right direction:

1. How has your understanding of your own identity been shaped by societal expectations and the search for validation in the wrong places?

2. In what ways have you observed parents, homeschooling or otherwise, conflate their own personal worth with the success or failure of their children’s education?

3. Have you ever experienced a situation where you unintentionally made someone, whether it be a child or someone else, a means to your own success? How did you reconcile and rectify that situation?

4. How can we create a safe and transparent environment with our children where they feel comfortable admitting their own flaws and mistakes?

5. How do you personally understand and navigate the tension between aiming for excellence in education and guarding against turning it into an idol?

6. Reflect on a time when you felt pressure to succeed in a particular area, and how that impacted your sense of self-worth. How were you able to find value in something beyond the pursuit of success?

7. Have there been moments in your own parenting or educational journey that served as a wake-up call or learning opportunity, revealing the truth about your own character or need for God’s grace?

8. How does the concept of recognizing our sins and repenting impact the way we approach our own personal growth and development as parents, educators, or mentors?

9. In what ways can our failures and mistakes as parents or educators actually become opportunities for growth and transformation, both for ourselves and for our children?

10. How does understanding the historical life, death, and resurrection of Jesus inform and shape the way we approach our homeschooling or educational endeavors? How does it bring liberation and delight to the learning process?

Read the full interview transcript:

Continue reading “Finding Identity and Redemption in the Homeschooling Journey”

How To Homeschool – My Original Roadmap

When I was just diving into homeschooling for the first time, my good friend, Holly Lerner, gave me a simple two-page document, which became my early roadmap for success. Over the years, Holly served as a homeschooling and motherhood mentor to me, and her example has been a constant inspiration and encouragement.

I still have that original document from Holly. Simply titled: “How to Homeschool,” the guide that inspired me can now inspire thousands of new homeschooling moms.

I recently sat down with Kristi Clover to record an interview for the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (this four-part interview will air 9/4, 9/6, 9/7, 9/8/2023), and as I was planning I realized that with so many new families beginning to homeschool it was time to go back to the basics and record a “How to Homeschool” guide. So, once again, I brought out Holly’s instructions, and these served as a guide to my interview with Kristi.

How to Homeschool, by Holly Lerner

Foundation for Parenting

Ecclesiastes 12:13 “The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.”

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.  And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.”

Why We Homeschool

  • Train our children in the “discipline and instruction of the Lord” (Ephesians 6:4), godly character
  • Teach obedience (Colossians 3:20) Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.”
  • Titus 2:3-5
    • “teaching what is good
    • “love [our] children” (delight in them)
    • “workers at home”
    • “that the word of God may not be dishonored”

How to Make Decisions

  • Pray (Phil 4:6) “do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.”
  • Focus on God: glory to God and serve God
  • Always LOVE (1 Cor 13:1-3) If I have lots of great things, “but have not love, I gain nothing.”
  • Remember the future: Learn these and teach by modeling godly character traits in our home
    • Diligence
    • Faith
    • Moral excellence
    • Knowledge
    • Self-control
    • Perseverance
    • Godliness
    • Brotherly kindness
    • Love
  • 2 Peter 1:5-7 “… make every effort to supplement your faithwith virtue, and virtuewith knowledge,and knowledge with self-control, and self-controlwith steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,and godlinesswith brotherly affection, and brotherly affectionwith love.”

Priorities in Education & Training

  • Have a mindset to guide our thinking in discouraging times (What Scripture do we need to dwell on when we are discouraged?)
  • IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT ACADEMICS!!! Academics are one aspect of one of four areas of the chart. Don’t let it take over everything else.
  • Prioritize academic subjects (don’t try to do everything every day)

How to Approach Teaching Academics

  • Academics are an opportunity to…
    • Teach character
      • Do it when they don’t like it
      • Do it diligently
      • Persevere when it’s hard
    • Learn skills to equip children for future service to God
  • Realize and Remember that…
      • We are not imitating the school system or a school setting, so don’t compare to schools or grade level skills or government standards
      • Children will learn quickly when they are ready, so don’t worry if you think they seem “behind” or if you are not accomplishing what you had hoped to accomplish
  • Pick one thing to do well and consistently
      • Aim for independence
      • Read
      • Write
      • Math
      • Choose something that you can do with all your children
    • Choose 1 subject to focus on each year (so you can build slowly and get better at all of this!)
  • Manage Age Ranges and Abilities
      • List activities that the little ones (nonreaders) can do independently
    • Limit individual instruction for the older ones to how long the youngest can be independent (or juggle with an older one working with a younger one so you can teach a 3rd one or more…)
  • Set Goals for each year – as a family and for each child
  • Use what you have!
    • You don’t have to buy curriculum or find the “perfect” thing in order to be successful/productive/teaching well.

I pray that this simple outline serves you as well as it has served our family.

Recommended Resources:

Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free.

Free Homeschool Survival Kit

Homegrown Generation Family Expo – Online Homeschool Conference. Get instant access to all of the sessions from 2023 and 2020 (over 50 hours of content)!

The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast – Biblical homeschooling, parenting, and family discipleship encouragement and advice. Each show shares practical advice to help point our children to Christ, build a solid Biblical worldview, teach effectively, preserve our marriages, manage our homes, and approach child-rearing and discipline issues with a heart-centered focus that will result in confident, biblically-minded, wise, well-balanced adults.

The Homeschool Insights Podcast – Practical, Biblical, home education and parenting encouragement and resources in under ten minutes a day.

More on this topic:

This is Why We Homeschool

Homeschooling Multiple Ages: 20 Secrets to Simplify Teaching and Make History Come Alive

Rescuing Our Children: An Urgent Call to Take Back Education

20 Questions EVERY PARENT Should be Able to Answer About Education

As I write this, we’re in the middle of a recording blitz. We always try to get ahead of recording for the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast and Homeschool Insights Podcast before summer, and this always tends to be a busy time of year for us appearing on other shows, as well. Yvette recorded two interviews today. I’ll be on a podcast tonight and another live show early tomorrow morning.

As I have been preparing for my interviews, I realized that the questions that will be asked and answered on these shows are the same questions that EVERY parent should be able to answer about education.

And some of them aren’t that obvious.

So here they are….

  • What does God’s Word have to say about education?
  • How are parenting, education, and discipleship related?
  • Who does the Bible specifically instruct to educate children? 
  • Culture, the family, the church, and our constitutional republic seem to be crumbling around us. How is education contributing to their decline?
  • What is the major philosophy or worldview that drives public education?
  • How are DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion), the LGBTQ+ Agenda, BLM, CSE (Comprehensive Sexuality Education), Critical Race Theory, the 1619 Project, “anti-bullying” campaigns, and radical environmentalism related?
  • What’s with “book banning” and the rise of pornographic books in libraries and classrooms?
  • How does the traditional school model contribute to the decline of the family? 
  • How does government funding shape the agenda that is promoted through government schools?
  • Who should pay for education?
  • How is the culture war a “War of words” and how is this agenda being driven in schools (how are critical thinking, language, and logic handled in traditional schools)?
  • What is this all leading to?
    • What is the earthly/political end game (NWO, the Great Reset, one world government, global Marxist tyranny)?
    • What is the spiritual/eschatalogical end (One-world government, the Great Tribulation, the rise of the Anti-Christ, and ultimately the return of Christ)?
  • What about “good schools?” We often hear “Our family lives in a small, conservative town and our kids’ teachers are Christians. Do I need to worry?”
  • Can the public education system be reformed?
  • What is dad’s role in education and discipleship?
  • What is mom’s role in education and discipleship?
  • What is a grandparent’s role in education and discipleship?
  • What should churches and pastors be doing to solve these problems?
  • What am I doing to solve these problems?
  • What resources are available to help? 

As parents, the answers to these questions are all critically important. Here’s the good news. We are constantly addressing the REAL answers found in God’s Word. We are committed to producing high-quality resources to sound the alarm and help families take back the hearts of their children. I’ve listed a few great resources at the end of this post, but before we get to those we should look at what the Bible has to say about these things.

As usual, I referenced my favorite “what does the Bible have to say about education” resource, Israel Wayne’s fantastic article, “Christian Education: A Manifesto.

Bible Verses and Application (most of the commentary below is from Israel Wayne):

Psalm 1:1-2: “Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on His law he meditates day and night.”

  • We are blessed if we avoid the unGodly counsel our children will receive in government schools, and the socialization of sinful classmates and the mocking, scoffing attitudes they pick up in school.
  • How can a child meditate day and night on God’s law in government school? He can do this when his parents teach him to apply God’s law to every area of life.
  • Contrast “Blessings” promised in this passage with the “Cursings” in Deuteronomy 28, and see which one you want to receive.

Proverbs 1:8: “Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.”

Proverbs 22:6: “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is grown, he will not depart from it.”

  • There is a way a child should go, and parents need to be training the child in THAT direction, not in the direction of the world.

Joel 1:3: “Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.”

  • Christian education is best understood as the equipping of each successive generation to train the next. This is a family matter, not a governmental mandate.

Ephesians 6:4: “Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the LORD.”

  • Is schooling mentioned in the Bible (and does God have an opinion)? Why YES! I’m glad you asked! This is just one of many passages that should solifiy this issue, but in Ephesians 6:4 we are commanded:”Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but instead, train them up in the nurture (literally, “Biblical counseling”), and admonition (the Greek word, “Paideia”) of the Lord.” (KJV)
  • What does Paideia mean? From the Encyclopeida Brittanica:
    • “Paideia, (Greek: “education,” or “learning”), system of education and training in classical Greek and Hellenistic (Greco-Roman) cultures that included such subjects as gymnastics, grammar, rhetoric, music, mathematics, geography, natural history, and philosophy. In the early Christian era the Greek paideia, called humanitas in Latin, served as a model for Christian institutions of higher learning, such as the Christian school of Alexandria in Egypt, which offered theology as the culminating science of their curricula. The term was combined with enkyklios (“complete system,” or “circle”) to identify a large compendium of general education, hence “encyclopaedia. Everything that could be taught in academics was wrapped up in the Greek word, “Paideia.” It was the word the Greeks used for “Schooling.” Paul commanded fathers to train their children up NOT in the Paideia of the world, but instead, in the Paideia of the Lord.

Colossians 2:8: “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world.”

  • Christian education must be predicated on the foundation of Christ, not on humanistic thought.

Deuteronomy 6:6-7, 11:19: “These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.”

  • This describes a 24/7/365 discipleship paradigm, centered on the commandments of God.

Deuteronomy 32:46: “Take to your heart all the words with which I am warning you today, which you shall command your sons to observe carefully, even all the words of this law.”

  • Christian education is modeling first, instructing second. You have to have God’s law written on your own heart. If you don’t own it, you can’t sell it.

Parents and Grandparents:

Exodus 10:2: “That you may tell in the hearing of your son, and of your grandson, how I made a mockery of the Egyptians, and how I performed My signs among them; that you may know that I am the LORD.” • Instruction of the young is given to parents and grandparents.

Joel 1:3: “Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.”

  • Christian education is best understood as the equipping of each successive generation to train the next. This is a family matter, not a governmental mandate.

Jesus the WORD (LOGOS)

John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Hebrews 1:2,3: “in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [worlds, 3 who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,”

Colossians 1:17: “And He is before all things, And in Him all things hold together.”

Resources (Share these far and wide):

Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for FREE – Whether you’re just considering home education for the first time or you’re a seasoned veteran this feature-length documentary will encourage and equip you to start strong and finish well.

Free Homeschool Survival Kit – 70+ page eBook to take you from start to finish in homeschooling. The Homeschool Survival Kit begins with a quick-start guide and ends with a value packed resource guide. In between, we cover the topics that every homeschool parent needs to know so that their family thrives.

Homegrown Generation Family Expo – This online homeschool conference features over 50 hours of homeschooling, parenting, and family discipleship content from Kirk CameronHeidi St. JohnSam SorboKevin SorboKathy BarnetteAndrew PudewaIsrael WayneRick GreenGinger HubbardMeeke AddisonTodd WilsonLeigh BortinsRachael CarmanDavis CarmanDurenda Wilson, and many more.

The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast – Biblical homeschooling, parenting, and family discipleship encouragement and advice every Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Each show shares practical advice to help point our children to Christ, build a solid Biblical worldview, teach effectively, preserve our marriages, manage our homes, and approach child-rearing and discipline issues with a heart-centered focus that will result in confident, biblically-minded, wise, well-balanced adults.

The Homeschool Insights Podcast – Homeschool Insights gives you practical, Biblical, home education and parenting encouragement and resources in under ten minutes a day. Hosted by Yvette Hampton, each show features the advice of Christian education experts, authors, speakers, curriculum publishers, and homeschool veterans, to help you disciple the hearts of your children for the glory of God!

Support Schoolhouse Rocked

We have several new, powerful resources in the works, but these can only be completed with your help. Please consider supporting the ongoing ministry of Schoolhouse Rocked with a one-time or monthly donation here.

Thank you for allowing us to walk with you in the important work of parenting and discipleship. To God be all the glory!

Photo by Bogomil Mihaylov on Unsplash

How Can I Find a Homeschooling Mentor?

Older and younger woman cooking together

Yvette Hampton and Aby Rinella continue their homeschool Q&A series with a discussion on homeschool parent mentors. Where can you find a mentor? What are the benefits of having one? Is the internet really enough, or could in-person interactions be even more valuable?

Yvette Hampton: This question says, “I need a Christian homeschooling mentor that can walk me through and help me step by step.” Oh, I love this question.

Aby Rinella: Yes, you do. We all do.

Yvette Hampton: Yes, we do. And let me just say that is so much of the reason why we do what we do at Schoolhouse Rocked. Aby and I do not spend the time that we do, recording podcasts and videos, and doing all these things because we make a ton of money at it, or get tons of rewards for it. Our reward is knowing that we are doing what God has called us to do, and being a blessing to you. And so, we really want to help, virtually mentor you. And we have others who do that with us, because Aby and I are still going into our 10th year of homeschooling, but there are many who have gone ahead of me and graduated their kids.

Yvette Hampton: And so, I have people in my life, like Durenda Wilson, Rachael Carman, Ginger Hubbard, and Connie Albers and people like that who…, who have spent years pouring into their kids, and are now pouring into us younger moms. It’s the whole Titus 2 thing. The older women teaching the younger women how to do this parenting, and marriage, and life thing, and being keepers of our home. Because homeschooling falls under all of those categories, and so you do need a homeschooling mentor.

Aby Rinella: Absolutely.

Yvette Hampton: I would say if you can find someone in your local church, or a local Christian homeschool support group or co-op, or something like that, seek them out. Because I think it’s part of our nature as humans to want to feel needed. It’s a blessing to those who are helping. I know when moms come to me and say, “Can you just help me with this, can you answer this question for me,” Or, “I was thinking about this, and I know you’ve been through this already, can you just walk me through this?” It is a huge blessing to me, and an honor, to be able to walk with them and help them to do that. And then, you know what? Later on, down the road, you get to be that to someone else.

Aby Rinella: Yes. And please, if you are at the end of this journey, when you graduate your last, don’t be done. It is so important that you stay in the game, because these new moms need you. And often, I think, without these great mentors, they may quit. So, stay in the game. There are a lot of mentorship things online where you can reach out to people, but I think nothing beats someone that’s walking it with you day-to-day, that can show up at your house and fold socks with you while you’re crying, and pray with you, and knows your kids, but… So, what was actually the question though? “How do I find one?”

Yvette Hampton: It’s more kind of a statement than a question.

Aby Rinella: Okay, okay.

Yvette Hampton: I think she’s just saying, “How do I find a homeschool mentor?”

Aby Rinella: So, one thing I would say is, “Ask.” Where I live, I tried to set up a homeschool mentorship program where we took some of the veteran moms and the younger moms. I remember the veteran moms saying several times, “These new young homeschool moms, they don’t act like they need us. They’re not asking. They have it all kind of figured out, and they’ve got their books and their online courses, and their this and their that.” So, don’t be afraid to go to that older woman in your area that has homeschooled, and say, “Hey, would you mentor me?” Don’t be afraid to ask. And older moms, please don’t be afraid to reach out to the younger moms. We need that.

Yvette Hampton: Right, yeah. And be honest and transparent with them. Don’t act like you have it all together, because none of us do, trust me.

Aby Rinella: Totally. We can see right through you.

Yvette Hampton: Just be honest with them and just say, “This is really what I’m struggling with.” And sometimes you may not have that person in your local community, but try to find that person somewhere.

Aby Rinella: Right.

Yvette Hampton: Yeah. [chuckle] Part of me wants to say, “You know, even through social media, you can find that.” But you can also find a lot of really, really bad advice.

Aby Rinella: Right.

Yvette Hampton: And so, I would say, be careful of that too. Rarely do I ever go on homeschool social media pages, like on Facebook and stuff, because some of the advice out there is just so poor. Some people give really good, sound Biblical advice, but some don’t. So just be careful who you’re listening to.

Aby Rinella: Exactly.

Yvette Hampton: She’s saying, “I need a Christian homeschooling mentor.” So, it sounds to me like she’s wanting someone who really is going to point her towards Christ.

Aby Rinella: Yeah, because a homeschool mentor is going to homeschool you in everything. Like you said, life, parenting, motherhood, marriage. So, you make sure your mentor lines up with God’s Word as they mentor you.

Yvette Hampton: Yeah, that’s right. And check everything through scripture. Don’t just take it for what they say, but back things up with scripture.

Aby Rinella: Yes.

Yvette Hampton: Sadly, we are out of time for today. Again, if you have questions for us, please send them in to podcast@schoolhouserocked.com. It is our absolute privilege and joy and honor to be able to answer those for you. So, let us know how we can encourage you. Aby, thank you for joining me today, again. And you guys cannot see this right now, but Aby is wearing a Schoolhouse Rocked T-shirt. And it is so cute.

Aby Rinella: It is so awesome. There are Schoolhouse Rocked long sleeves, shorts, it’s endless. You could actually change out your entire wardrobe to Schoolhouse Rocked… And your husband’s, too, honestly!

Yvette Hampton: Yes.

Aby Rinella: If you go to the Schoolhouse Rocked website, click “Support Schoolhouse Rocked” and select “Store” in the drop-down menu (Or click HERE!)

Considering Homeschooling? Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free tonight and learn how. After you have watched the movie, download the Free Homeschool Survival Kit. This free 70+ page resource will give you the encouragement and tools you need to start strong and finish well. 

Photo by Andrea Piacquadio on Pexels.

Equipping the Next Generation to Transform Culture

“We found ourselves in a situation where we were at this impasse where we realized that our kids were being discipled away from us. Because whenever there is influence, whenever there is training, whenever there was teaching, there was discipleship.”

– Meeke Addison

Yvette Hampton recently had the opportunity to interview Meeke Addison for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast about the importance of preparing our children for the ongoing culture war. Meeke Addison is the Assistant Director of Special Initiatives at the American Family Association and co-host of Airing the Addisons on AFR. Her work with AFA began in 2007 as a stay-at-home mom in Louisiana. Since then she has primarily served on-air as a radio personality.

Yvette Hampton:           Hey, everyone. This is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to The Schoolhouse Rocked PodcastI have such a great guest on today with me, and I’m so excited for you to get to meet her. Her name is Meeke Addison, and she was actually introduced to me by Israel Wayne. I know that many of you know Israel. He’s been on the podcast several times, and he said, “You need to meet this lady, Meeke Addison.” And I said, “Okay,” so we started checking into her, because this is what we do. We use the internet to spy on people. And so, Garritt actually started listening to your radio show, and just following you on Facebook. He’s been for months, and he said, “We have got to get this lady on the podcast. She is such an encouragement.” So, I’m really, really excited, Meeke, to have you on today. I would love it if you would introduce yourself to our audience.

Listen to Meeke Addison on The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (3/30 and 4/2/2020 episodes)

Meeke Addison:            Well, thank you. I’m so excited to be with you guys, and that means so much to know, because we have so many different outlets, people can listen to whatever they want. So, it’s an honor to me and for me that anybody would listen to anything that I have to say. I’m Wil Addison’s wife, and we’ve been married for 15 years, and I’m the mother of his five children, and we homeschool. That’s my full-time job. My part-time job is as a spokesperson for the American Family Association, and I picked that up from my good friend, Abraham Hamilton. He says that what we do out in the culture, that is part-time work, but that our full-time work is with our families.

Meeke Addison:            And so, anyway, I do that, and I host a national radio show for an hour, Monday through Friday, where we talk about cultural issues. We talk about marriage, the family. We look at what’s going on with the church, and how we can hold the line. That’s what we’re constantly encouraging people to do, hold the line in 21st century America.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, I love it. Well, you are doing amazing work. I love what you just said about Abraham Hamilton III, right?

Meeke Addison:            That’s correct.

Read Hard Truths: A One-Month Devotional, by Meeke Addison

Yvette Hampton:           He’s your pastor, I learned, and he’s another great advocate for Jesus and homeschooling and culture, and just this desperate revival that we are in need of. You said that being a mom is a full-time job, and the other stuff is your part-time job. And we just actually did a podcast about motherhood, the ministry of motherhood. I kind of gave my testimony of what the Lord’s been doing in my heart, and going from working full-time with Schoolhouse Rocked, and pouring my whole self into that and realizing that my first priority really needed to be my children. And so, the Lord has really been working in our family, and kind of allowing me to let go of some Schoolhouse Rocked stuff, except for the podcast, and allowing me to be more present with my family. And so, I love that that is your primary ministry as well.

Yvette Hampton:           And you know, that podcast, it wasn’t at all to say we shouldn’t ever work, as wives and as moms, we should never, ever, ever work outside of taking care of our families. But there has to be balance in doing that. We need to know what our priorities are, and so I really appreciate you saying that.

Meeke is a speaker for the live, interactive, online 2020 Homegrown Generation Family Expo. Check out a FREE preview (7 sessions – over 9 hours of content) here!

Yvette Hampton:           I know that the Lord has done many great things through you, and you and I got to talk on the phone the other day, and you got to share with me your story about how you started homeschooling. And so, I would love for you to tell that story, and then I want to talk about culture, and how homeschooling kind of ties into this whole culture war that we have going on. So, share with us your homeschool story.

Meeke Addison:            We found ourselves in a situation where we were at this impasse where we realized that our kids were being discipled away from us. Because whenever there is influence, whenever there is training, whenever there was teaching, there was discipleship. You are making people who are followers. And so, we had our kids, the two oldest of the five were educated traditionally, outside of our home, and one of the things that we noticed was just these slow changes happening in them, where the things that they cared about and the things that grabbed their attention seemed to be more the things of the world.

Meeke Addison:            And they had wonderful, Godly teachers. We live in a small community, and so they went down to First Baptist in our area, and the teachers are active in the community. But at the same time, I started to notice that those became my girls’ influence, that their teachers and that their peers were their influence. Add to that, I felt like I was spending 2-3 hours after they got home every day just kind of reteaching them, and Yvette, I just felt like, why am I doing this? I’m frustrated, and then also I’m adding time to my day to teach them the way I wanted them to be taught.

Watch Meeke Addison’s live, interactive, online session for the Homegrown Generation Family Expo on the Homegrown Generation Family Expo Live Event Facebook group. Lifetime access to video replays and audio downloads is just $20 at HomegrownGeneration.com.

Meeke Addison:            And after prayer, and just Will and I putting our heads together, we felt like the Lord was really directing us to homeschool them. I guess that was 2015, and we haven’t looked back. I was expecting baby number four. I keep track of life by the babies that I’m expecting. But I was expecting baby number four, and that’s when we made the decision that when the school year came to a close, we would homeschool.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah. I love that. In your radio show that you host, you talk a lot about culture, and this culture war that we are in. And I would love for you to talk about it from the perspective of a Christian homeschool mom. What do you see going on in the culture right now, and how can we as homeschool moms help this revival that is really needed to take place?

“The reality is that it’s not the type of America that I think even you and I grew up in. I think it’s rapidly changing, and what we have to recognize is that it’s not a neutral change. It is a very aggressive change that pulls toward darkness.”

– Meeke Addison

Meeke Addison:            I think one of the big mistakes that we make is that we think the culture is neutral. We think that the culture does not have a goal or an aim, or that it is not aggressive with that goal or that aim. And that’s one of the things that we try to sort of awake and stir the Christian community to see, in that the culture is making grabs all the time, and actually, it’s predominant, right? Our country has undergone a shift where it’s no longer the Christian culture that is predominant. We’ve heard people describe this as post-Christian America, and what does this look like?

Meeke Addison:            But the reality is that it’s not the type of America that I think even you and I grew up in. I think it’s rapidly changing, and what we have to recognize is that it’s not a neutral change. It is a very aggressive change that pulls toward darkness. So, you can’t just expect your kid to be out in this culture and be unaffected. Your kid doesn’t just go out into the world and arrive at a neutral position. Your kid going out into the world is going to arrive at the position that’s already established by the culture. And it is antithetical to the faith.

Yvette Hampton:           That’s right. It truly is, and we’re trusting that because we have them at home with us, when we have them at home with us if we have them out in the public, we’re teaching them Bible verses, and maybe they go to one, and they go to church on Sunday morning, and so we think oftentimes at Christian parents, well, that’s enough. They know we love Jesus. But then for 35 or 40 hours a week, we’re putting them under the influence of someone else, and someone else’s ideas, and someone else’s religion, really, because everybody believes in something, and there is religion being taught in public schools. And oftentimes even in private schools, there is false religion being taught in those schools, as well. And so, yes, I think it’s a very difficult thing to expect our kids to spend all of that time away from us, and then still come back with our own values and believes and morals. It’s a war. It’s a battle that we fight.

Meeke Addison:            It is a war.

Yvette Hampton:           What can we as parents who, some listening to this are homeschool parents, some are not. Some are trying to future out this homeschool thing and wondering is this for us, is this something that we want to pursue. How can we have a greater influence on our kids, and therefore in our culture?

Meeke Addison:            The first thing I think we have to realize is that there is the need for greater influence. I think sometimes, we start talking about hey, here are some solutions you have to do, but I don’t know that Christian parents, or even nominal Christian parents, have even bought in to the idea that there’s really a war, that they really need to be aggressive in this. And so, one of the things that we try to do with our kids is, we try to parent them for the America that they live in now. Not the America that we knew. Not the America that our grandparents knew. But we try to parent our kids based on the America that we live in now and the unchanging message of the Gospel.

Meeke Addison:            So, we still teach our kids that they are peculiar. We teach them that they will have, by default, a different approach to live, and we believe that we have to prepare them now so that when they go out into the world, they’re not shocked to discover that they’re not well-liked. They’re not shocked to discover that people don’t love their message. Because you know what, there was a time when we were all just pretty good. Christians were everywhere, and everybody kind of had the same values and the same morals.

Meeke Addison:            But for those of us that are adhering to the word of God, we’re waking up to the reality that where the rubber meets the road is that a Bible-believing Christian will be called hateful, will be called a bigot, will be called narrow-minded. And you can believe in a Jesus who accepts everyone as they are and doesn’t require anything of us, and is just one path among many. But if you say what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, that he is the only way, he is the only way to God, he is the only one who forgives our sin, then you’re narrow-minded, and we don’t want that type of Christian to be in our circles. So, we prepare our kids, and this is going to sound weird, I know, but we prepare our kids to not be popular in the current culture that we live in.

Yvette Hampton:           How do you do that? Practically speaking?

Meeke Addison:            Okay, this is going to sound really weird, right? But one of the verses, and we may get into this a little bit later, but I really believe that a kid or a student who is fully trained, as the Bible teaches us, is going to be like their teacher, right?

Yvette Hampton:           That’s right, Luke 6:40.

Meeke Addison:            Exactly right. So, I try to ensure that Wil and I are the number one influences in our kids’ lives. And so, we model for them that we as your parents are not chasing after the latest fad. We’re not into everything that’s cool and popular. There are things that we filter, even as adults. We constantly tell our kids, the things that we say, no, you’re not going to participate in that, or we don’t watch that, we call it consumption, we’re not consuming those things, you know what I mean? We tell them, guess what, we subject ourselves to these same rules, because these rules aren’t arbitrary. It’s not, we do it because we’re adults and you can’t because you’re kids. We say, no, this is what we do as people who follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

Meeke Addison:            So, practically, what we try to do is make sure that we ourselves are not in the world to be loved by the world. That we’re not in the world to be liked. So, that means that we’re not ripping and running all the time. We’re not trying to keep up on the latest things. I cannot stress enough how parents influence their kids with their actions more than what they say. So, it means that the things that we value, we want to make sure that it’s Biblical, and then we want to communicate that it our kids so that these are also the things that they value, and it’s as natural to them as breathing. It’s the way that we live our lives.

Yvette Hampton:           Yes, yes. I love that so much. It’s a hard thing to do, especially because we have grown up in a culture where we want to be liked. We want to be popular. I definitely, thinking back to my high school years, it’s so funny, I was just talking to my daughter about this the other day, and I said, I remember high school and junior high like it was yesterday. I graduated in 1993, and that was a long time ago, but I remember it like it was yesterday. And I remember that deep desire to be popular. I wanted to be liked by everybody, and I wanted to be the cool girl.

Yvette Hampton:           And that’s something that even as an adult, I find myself going into, I want people to like me. I don’t want people to dislike me. And it’s hard to not conform to the culture around us. But I mentioned this on last week’s podcast, where we talked about when my oldest was born, I had a very wise mom come along side me, and she said, you become the wife and mom that you want her to grow up to be.

Meeke Addison:            Yes!

Yvette Hampton:           And that’s it.

Meeke Addison:            That’s wonderful.

Yvette Hampton:           That’s who I want her to become. And I’m going to fail a million times, because I’m a simple human, but at least I can attempt and to my very best to be who God made me be. And then we get to teach our kids. I went on a walk with her this morning, actually, and we were talking about identity, and how her identity is found in Christ and being Christlike. It’s not found in the culture. It’s not found in what magazines say is the new fashion, and what things on TV say, and how you should talk, and what music you should listen to. And it’s hard to keep them from that.

Yvette Hampton:           We’re very intentional about what our girls say. We’re not TV-watchers. We’re not really big movie-watchers, which is kind of ironic, since my husband is a filmmaker. But oftentimes, we sit down and we’re like, let’s see if we can watch a movie, and it seems almost impossible to find even a decent movie for us to watch as a family.

Meeke Addison:            I agree.

Yvette Hampton:           But that’s okay. Then we end up playing a game, which is what we do all the time anyway. But it is difficult. It’s difficult to be set apart. How do your children react to that? Has that just been something that they just know, because that’s how your family is? Or do they push against you on that ever?

Meeke Addison:            No, I have to say, each of our kids has their own unique personality. I’ve noticed that there are objections, but those objections are raised differently. With our oldest, she tends to be, she was very strong-willed. From the age of three to seven, it was consistent and constant discipline and character-shaping. Oh my goodness, it was exhausting for me. But man, the spirit of God just really gave ne, I guess, the endurance to know that if I can get to this point and not just leave her on autopilot, it’s going to produce a reward, and I have seen that. She’s 13 years old now, and she is my second-in-command. We always had that ability, but it needed to be channeled.

Meeke Addison:            I remember having a conversation with her, she was maybe about seven or eight, and it was almost the height of the rebellion, challenging everything. And I said to her, I said, listen, without consequence, let’s have a conversation. What do you want? What is going on? I said, you’re not going to be in trouble. I just need to know what it is. And my daughter said to me, she said, I want to be your boss. I want to be your boss.

Yvette Hampton:           Hey, at least she knew.

Meeke Addison:            This was a breakthrough for me, because I understood that what we’re doing here is now we’re battling for leadership. And so, I had an opportunity to teach her that the time is going to come where she is going to be able to be in her own family, and she will be the mom in the family. She will be in that position of leadership. And it was a wonderful moment, and it changed the course of our relationship. So now, she is actually very honest with me when she is tempted to rebel. When she feels like things are not going her way, we’ve built the kind of relationship where she will tell me.

Meeke Addison:            Then, I have my second daughter, who is compliant outwardly, but inwardly, no. I disagree. I don’t understand the reasoning. I don’t understand why we have to do it that way. And I’ve noticed that in her, and so I’ve tried to encourage honesty and transparency. Do you sometimes think that my rules are arbitrary? Yes. Do you sometimes think that we don’t need to do it that way? Yes. Let me explain to you why we’re doing it this way, and let me explain to you that again, when you’re married, or if that’s not the Lord’s will for you, but when you’re on your own or however this all works out, after you leave this house, which that’s a whole other topic, we’re not pushing our kids out. But so, I have to deal with them each differently.

Meeke Addison:            And then, I have another son who he doesn’t understand why the world is so wicked. He really just doesn’t understand why people are not better. He’s 10. He’s very philosophical in his thinking. He’s very scholarly, so he reads a lot. And he reads the Bible a lot on his own. He just loves the Word of God. And he goes, there’s nothing that the Bible doesn’t speak to, is what he says all the time, when he has an issue.

Meeke Addison:            And to go back to another question that you asked, Yvette, one of the things that we have tried to do, as homeschooling parents, we still try to make sure that our kids do not see us as the final authority. We position the Word of God as the final authority, and when they ask us questions, we take them to the Scriptures, and we say to them all the time, this is the straight edge. This is the straight edge. And so, we try to take them back to the Word of God, and I feel like that’s helped them to process a lot of what our objections are, because they see them as Biblical objections and not just parental usurpation. I don’t know. I guess these little people, they want to be independent.

Yvette Hampton:           Yes, yes. I love it so much. And it’s true. Our girls are kind of flip-flopped from yours, in that my oldest is the more outwardly compliant, and my youngest is very strong-willed, and it’s so net to hear her, because we’ve really been working on her strong will. And it’s strong. I didn’t … I never really understood what a temper tantrum was until she came along. Then I was like, oh, that’s actually a thing. It’s different from a tantrum. A temper tantrum is something completely different.

Meeke Addison:            Wow.

Yvette Hampton:           But she prays now. Like yours, she has such a soft heart, and often, almost daily, she prays, Lord, help me to use my strong will in a way that honors You. Because God gave her that strong will, and I want her to use it in a way that honors Him. I don’t want to take it away from her. She just needs to use it in the right direction.

Meeke Addison:            That’s right.

Yvette Hampton:           She can do big things for His Kingdom if will learn to honor and obey Him. And what a beautiful thing.

Yvette Hampton:           We were talking about how God is the final authority, and we were talking about parenting, and just teaching our kids that it’s not our rules that we are enforcing upon our children, but it’s really God’s authority, and just saying this is what God has for us. And I say this on the podcast all the time, so for those who listen, they know. One of the things we tell our girls constantly, and it has been said many times today. Today has been one of those days for us. But we tell them all the time that sin causes pain, but obedience brings blessings.

Meeke Addison:            Amen.

Yvette Hampton:           And the reason that we want them to obey is because we want them to have a life of blessings, and not a life of pain. And here’s the thing, life is painful. Obedience doesn’t mean you’re not going to have any pain in your life at all, because we live in a sinful, fallen world. But it’s a different kind of pain than the pain that you choose for yourself because of your own disobedience.

Yvette Hampton:           And so, we are constantly trying to just pour God’s word over them, and it’s one of the greatest things about having them home with us, is because we get to be the ones … you and I were talking about the different character traits in our children, the strong-willed versus the one who is outwardly obedient but not so much inwardly obedient. And when we have them with us for the majority of the time, we get to work with them one-on-one and focus on who God created them to be, and what a wonderful and amazing privilege that we have. And not just a privilege, but a responsibility that we have as their parents to pour truth into their hearts, and help them to become who God created them to be.

Yvette Hampton:           So, I would love for you, I know you’ve got some scripture that you share with your kids and your family, and I would love for you to share with us some scripture that you go back to for conviction, and for the encouragement and training of your children.

Meeke Addison:            Yeah. One of them we kind of alluded to in the previous broadcast, which was the understanding that … and this is sort of like, whenever it’s taxing. Whenever I feel overwhelmed, or whenever I feel like maybe I talk to a friend, and they’re like, we’re studying this and we’re doing this, and that temptation kind of rises up to compare yourself, and you think, wait a minute, should I also be doing that? I don’t know if I’m …

Meeke Addison:            And I think about, what’s the purpose? Why am I doing what I’m doing? I’m not doing this so that my kids will be competitive in the world. That’s not the reason that I’m doing this. I am doing this because I really do believe that when a student is fully trained, he or she will be like their teacher. And so, I go back to that whenever I feel discouraged, whenever I feel like I’m overwhelmed, or even when the enemy tries to condemn me. These feelings that we battle with as moms, like am I meeting all of their goals? Are there going to be gaps? Are there things that I don’t know?

Meeke Addison:            I remind myself of the reason that I’m doing this, and the reason that I’m doing this is so that I can pass the Gospel on to them intact. I want them to have the truth of the Gospel. Not some American version of the Gospel. Not some 21st century version of the Gospel. But I want them to have the faith as it has been handed down to us, and that’s why we do what we do.

Yvette Hampton:           Yep. You talk about the American version of the Gospel, and I know that one of the things that you really focus on in your ministry is the church, and where the church is today. Can you talk a little bit about what you’re seeing in church culture, and how we can be part of some change that needs to go on?

Meeke Addison:            Yeah. I feel like there’s always been a battle in the church. I tell people all the time that the Gospel has never existed in safety. We have this idea where we think that back in this day, or in this time period, it was just easy to hold on to the Gospel. It’s never been easy to hold on to the Gospel. Through persecution, through loss of live, through insidious methods infiltrating the church, the Gospel has always been under attack.

Meeke Addison:            But I think in the United States of America, it’s been different because we kind of think that that can’t happen in the United States of America, that the Gospel cannot be under attack because America, and my husband says this often, America and Christianity have grown up alongside one another. And so now, people think that Americanism is Christianity.

Yvette Hampton:           Right.

Meeke Addison:            But the two are distinct, and one is supposed to influence the other. It’s supposed to be Christianity that influences the culture, influences the nature. Unfortunately, what we’ve seen is, we’ve seen Americanism influence Christianity, and that was never supposed to be. We see this represented in our churches, where our churches have growth models, like they’re businesses, right? Where how do we grow our church? Well, you do that by conversion. You do that because the Gospel bears fruit everywhere that it’s preached, and then the church grows.

Meeke Addison:            If you read through Acts, we’ve been studying through the Book of Acts with our children, because we want them to understand that our faith is real, that it’s something that has passed down through generations, that it holds up under scrutiny. And so, when you go back to that, when you look at the Lord adding daily to the number of believers who are being saved, you look at the Gospel bearing fruit, one of the things I think that our church got into, our churches in America, was really just Americanism.

Meeke Addison:            How do we create more popular youth groups? And I’m not anti-youth groups, but I just feel like if we have gotten to a place, and Yvette, I think we have, but if we’ve gotten to a place where we think it’s the youth pastor’s job to train my kid, if I think it’s the church’s job to equip my kid to stand against the onslaught of the culture, then I’m sorry, and not to be offensive, but we’re raising lazy Christians. And we ourselves are lazy believers. If we think that someone else is supposed to do that, it’s sort of like outsourcing discipleship. You know what I mean? Who can I get to do that for me, so that I don’t have to get my hands dirty? Well, you’re going to get your hands dirty.

Meeke Addison:            My husband says all the time, he says, we glamorize being fishers of men, and yeah, but at some point when you catch the fish, you have to clean them. It doesn’t stop with catching them, and that’s the discipleship. That’s the dirty work, where you have to really get in there and shape character. Well, I’m doing that first and foremost with my kids. That’s where it starts, and then after that, I’m discipling women, because I believe the Lord has called us to that, that older women are to teach younger women.

Meeke Addison:            And so, that’s important to me. But my work is first with my own kids. They’re right here. They’re closest to me in proximity. So, I don’t want to skip over them and then go to meet somebody else’s need, and my own kids are growing up like these wild weeds, you know?

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this conversation. I love what we’re talking about. I love talking about the church, and how America has really influenced the church, instead of the church influencing America. And that’s really what we’re seeing happen. And it’s not just in America, actually. It’s all over the world. We see that in European countries. I mean, it’s everywhere.

Yvette Hampton:           And I think that Satan is very clever. I think that he wants people to believe that they’re Christians if they go to church and they say all the right things, and they serve in church, and they serve the homeless. And I’m not saying any of that stuff is bad by any means. Of course it’s not. But we tend to think that just playing the game is our ticket to heaven, instead of people having a really deep, sincere, longing relationship with and for the Lord.

Yvette Hampton:           That is one of the things that we desperately work on teaching our girls, is we want them to thirst for the Lord. We want them to desperately want to know Him and have a relationship with Him, because it’s their relationship, it’s not ours. They don’t get to ride on our coattails into heaven.

Meeke Addison:            That’s right.

Yvette Hampton:           And it’s a hard thing to do. But all we can do is what God has called us to do, and be diligent in doing that. You have such a passion for Christian parents, and I know that for women, as well. You talked about Titus 2:3-5, and that the older women are to teach the younger women. And you’ve talked about this a little bit already, you did this in the first part of the podcast, but I would love for you to give some very practical advice on how we can very practically teach our children to love Jesus.

Meeke Addison:            My first piece of advice would be, we have to live that out. That has to be true for us. We can’t desire something for our kids that isn’t fist true for us.

Yvette Hampton:           Right.

Meeke Addison:            So, that’s our first prayer point, that we as the Lord, by the power of His Holy Spirit, to give us a genuine love for Him, that we ask the Lord to create in us a clean heart, to renew our right spirit within us. If the things of this world have overtaken us, then we need to confess that. We need to bring that to the Lord. If we ourselves have been, I don’t know, captivated by Americanism, then again, we need to confess that and bring that to the Lord. So, that’s number one.

Meeke Addison:            Number two, I approach training our kids like I approach discipling other people’s kids. We were missionaries for a number of years, and we trained university kids. And so, I look at my kids like an extension of that work that we did as missionaries. That means that I start with the Word of God as our authority and as our straight edge, and I talk to them like real people made in the image of God. I don’t disciple them, and this would be point number three.

Meeke Addison:            I don’t disciple them for them to make me look good. Because our kids are not here to make us look good. In fact, our kids are going to embarrass us. Our kids are going to say things, they’re going to have these little road bumps along the way as they grow in their faith. And I’m reminded of my own walk with the Lord, where there were things that I didn’t know, I didn’t understand perfectly, and the Lord was patient with me. He didn’t cast me away because I embarrassed him. No, the Lord was patient and enduring and long-suffering. And so, I want to have that as a model with my kids. They say things on a regular basis that I’m going, and where was that in Scripture?

Meeke Addison:            So, that’s number four. When they make claims about Christ … We’re going through the book of Acts, and so recently we’re on Acts chapter 17, where the Apostle Paul has moved on from Thessalonica, and he’s going to Berea, and the Bible says that the Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonians because they actually checked the Scriptures to see what the Apostles were saying was true. And so, I told our kids. And this is something that holds me, my feet to the fire. I tell them, if somebody makes a truth claim about the Lord, about His character, about His nature, your first question should be, where was that in Scripture? Where’d you get that? Where is that?

Meeke Addison:            And my son doesn’t miss a beat. He’s like, yeah, that’s great. He goes, mom, I was wondering. He goes, you said that Barnabas and Luke … or John Mark. You said that Barnabas and John Mark were cousins. He goes, where is that in the Bible? And I said, you know what, JD, I read it. I need to get that reference for you, but that’s a great catch. If I’m going to make a claim that Paul and Barnabas split up because of this dispute with Mark, and Mark was Barnabas’s cousin, well, that’s sensational. And so, I need to be able to back that up.

Meeke Addison:            So, I was talking to my husband, and I said, I remember reading somewhere about this, and he’s like, where is it? I said to my husband, where is it? And he goes, it’s in Colossians. And I go there and I did read it, but I’m thinking, these are the things that I need to subject myself to as well, right? I don’t pretend, and this would be number five. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. When I don’t know something, I say to my kids, I don’t know that answer, but I’m going to research it, and I’m going to get back to you, because that is a question worth digging in to.

Meeke Addison:            I think it’s so important for us to not trip ourselves up in being super parents, and our kids see that we have a real faith. I let my kids know when I’m wrestling, when I have questions. Recently, my sister, I’m the second of five, so my older who was the oldest of the five died suddenly. There was no reason. We still don’t know. And this was February 20th. And so, I’ve been walking through this grief process, and I’ve had to say to my kids, listen, this is a really tough time for me. This was my first best friend. She was just a year older than I am.

Meeke Addison:            And so, it’s been really tough, but I’m not going to hide that from them. I’m not going to only come out of my room once I’ve gotten it all together. I mean, they’ve seen me suddenly break down crying, and we were okay one minute. And I say to them, listen, the Bible teaches us that we don’t grieve as those who have no hope, but guys, we do grieve, and I’m going to miss her. And so, these are opportunities for us to show our kids that our faith is real, we live in a world where there’s pain, where there is suffering, but we also serve the true and living God.

Meeke Addison:            If I could summarize all of that for you, Yvette, what I would say is, I want my kids to know that my faith is real. That it’s not something that I just grew up in this, and this is just what people do, but that our hope is real. Everything that we’re passing on to them is something that we put our entire lives into.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah. Oh my goodness, that is amazing. I love that. I love everything you just said. I’m sitting here, I’m trying to write notes and still look at you at the same time. God’s word does not return void.

Meeke Addison:            Amen.

Yvette Hampton:           And when I was in high school, I think I’ve probably shared this before, but when I was in high school we went to a church that did many things that were anti-Biblical. And I really struggled with that, and I knew, there was just something in my spirit. I was a Christian at that time, and I knew that there was just something wrong with the things that were going on. And so, I went to a Christian school, and my Bible theology teacher, his name was Dean Spoelstra, and I would come to him and say, this happened at church this weekend, and what do you think?

Yvette Hampton:           And he would always say to me, it doesn’t matter what I think. Let’s see what the Word of God says about it. And he would always direct me back to Scripture, and he was the first one ever, and this was my junior year in high school, I remember specifically. He was the first one ever who just always directed me back to Scripture, and just say, what does God say about it? It doesn’t matter what I say. What does God say about it?

Yvette Hampton:           So, we really try to do that with our children, as well, because it doesn’t matter what we say. And teaching them Scripture as a whole, because it’s easy to take one verse and take it completely out of context, and say, well, this is what the Bible says. Okay, well, read everything around it. What’s the history around it? What does the Old Testament say that refers to that part of the New Testament? It’s one big story, and that’s why it’s so important to teach God’s Word as a whole. And so, yeah, I love that.

Yvette Hampton:           Pointing back to Jesus, there’s no better way to disciple the hearts of our children, and we have, again, such an amazing opportunity with having our children home with us, to be able to do that on a daily basis. If our kids were away from us for 35, 40 hours a week, we would miss so many opportunities to be able to do that, and so what a privilege and a responsibility we have to teach and train up our children to love Jesus.

Meeke Addison:            That’s right. I don’t think I would recognize them, Yvette. I don’t think I would recognize these kids that God’s given to me if I were not able to be around them and have these times with them.

Yvette Hampton:           Right, right. It is such a blessing. Well, we are unfortunately out of time. I feel like I could talk all day long with you. But again, you are going to be on the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. We’re going to do a live session with you. I’m so excited about that. And so, we will continue to talk about all things culture and discipleship with you during that event. Thank you again, Meeke, for your time today, and where can people find out more about you?

Meeke Addison:            People can go to AFA.net and connect with us there. Search for the Airing the Addisons podcast. And they can also look us up on Facebook if they look for the page Airing the Addisons.

Yvette Hampton:           Okay, sounds great. We’ll put all those links in the show notes as well, and thank you guys for listening. If you have not yet left a review for the podcast, we would love for you to do that. We really appreciate it. I know it’s kind of a hassle to do that. For some reason, iTunes does not make it easy to leave a review, but we appreciate those who take the time to figure it out, because it is a bit of a hassle. But we love you guys. We’re praying for you. Thank you for joining us today. Have a fantastic rest of your week, and we will see you back here next week. Bye!

Considering homeschooling? Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free tonight and learn how. After you have watched the movie, download the Free Homeschool Survival Kit. This free 70+ page resource will give you the encouragement and tools you need to start strong and finish well. 

Photo by Annie Spratt on Unsplash

Grandparents, a Blessing to Homeschooling Families

One of the greatest blessings of homeschooling is that it is generational. Homeschooling builds a LEGACY. Because of this simple fact, it is critical that we take seriously the motivation, direction, methods, and values of our homeschooling, because these will do so much to determine what that legacy is. Is our desire to train spelling bee champions, professional athletes, doctors, lawyers, engineers, pastors, missionaries, mothers or fathers, leaders, or followers?

It is helpful to know WHY we are homeschooling in order to establish HOW we will homeschool. Once we have determined the “why” and “how” of homeschooling, the real challenge begins. It is at this point that we realize we must MODEL for our children what we want them to be, because we know that “The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.” – Luke 6:40 (NIV)

Want to know more about the “why” of homeschooling? Listen to “Why Homeschool”, with Aby Rinella. This is one of the most listened to episodes in the history of The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast.

Barb and Rich Heki, of Grandparents of Homeschoolers, have seen the generational impact of homeschooling. As homeschool parents and grandparents themselves, they are committed to encouraging, inspiring and equipping grandparents to lovingly support, actively engage in and fully delight in the home-education adventure of their grandchildren – whether they live locally or long-distance. They also understand the importance of breaking down the resistance of grandparents who don’t understand homeschooling or support their children who homeschool or are considering homeschooling. As advocates of multi-generational family discipleship (because education IS discipleship), they are excited to be ministering to grandparents of homeschoolers, connecting the generations through home education.

Yvette Hampton recently had the privilege of interviewing Barb and Rich Heki for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. In this conversation they discussed the Biblical instruction for grandparents to disciple their grandchildren, which is given in Psalm 78, and they revealed the most effective way to break down the resistance of grandparents who oppose homeschooling – to get them involved!

Whether you are a parent or grandparent, child or grandchild, we hope you will be blessed by their discussion.

Listen to Barb and Rich Heki on The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (2/24 and 2/26/2020 episodes)

Yvette Hampton:           Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am thrilled that you’ve joined me today. I have two very special guests on with me today. Barb and Rich Heki. Some of you may have heard their names. They are also the founders of Grandparents of Homeschoolers. So today, we are going to talk about all things having to do with our own parents, and grandparents, and grandparents of your kids. Barb and Rich, welcome to the podcast.

Yvette Hampton:           I am delighted to have you on. We actually had you both as part of the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. It was just such an amazing event, and so I’m glad to have you back on talking about being grandparents of homeschoolers. There’s so much to talk about with this topic. I was actually talking to my mom, and I’ll have you introduce yourselves in just a minute, but I wanted to say I was talking to my mom last night, and I was telling her how much I appreciated the fact that when we started homeschooling, we never got any kind of resistance from her.

Watch the full interview with Barb and Rich Heki here.

Yvette Hampton:           My mom in the beginning, and actually I was talking to her, but I was talking about all of our parents. My mom, and my dad, and my husband’s mom and dad. When we first went down this road, we had said we’d never homeschool, and then all of a sudden we go to this homeschool convention and we came back, and we were so excited, and we were like, “We’re going to homeschool, and we’re going to do this forever.” We were just so excited about it.

Yvette Hampton:           None of our parents really understood it, but none of them gave us resistance about it. They just said, “Okay, if this is what you guys think is best.” I think part of that is we had been married quite a long time. By the time Brooklyn, my oldest, was going into kindergarten, we’d been married for 15 years, and so we were well-established in our adult life, and we were in our mid-30s. So I think they’ve trusted us. We had proven that, “Okay we can make logical and wise decisions for our family, and we had taken really good care of their grandchild so far.” So they trusted us to do that.

Yvette Hampton:           I know that that’s not the case with all parents. I’m grateful for our parents and their support even though they didn’t totally get it. You guys have an amazing ministry, not just to grandparents though your ministry is to grandparents, but it’s also to parents who are trying to figure out what this homeschool thing is. So, tell us a little bit about your family and how you got started in this ministry.

Rich Heki:                     Well, we have four adult children. We homeschooled them all the way through, and they’re all walking with the Lord, and that’s one thing we are so grateful for. We have been blessed so far with three grandchildren. The only bad part about that is they don’t live right near us. They live over a thousand miles away. One of the components of Grandparents of Homeschoolers is we talk about how we communicate, stay in touch with our grandchildren when they are a distance away from us, so we can still stay engaged in their lives. We can talk about that more later. Anything else you want to know?

Barb Heki:                     Lots of long distance grand-parenting out there. The ministry actually got started when we were leaders in our state organization, and we went to a different state’s convention to just get ideas, and they were having a grandparent tea, and we weren’t grandparents then, but if we asked if we could go just to observe. We saw the grandparents just connecting with each other. The ones who came and just weren’t really sure about this homeschooling thing were sold by the grandparents who were so excited, and they were involved in different ways. We just saw that, and oh my goodness, that was the seed of this ministry.

We are very grateful to have Barb and Rich Heki speaking at the 2020 Homegrown Generation Family Expo. Join us for this live, interactive online homeschool conference. Lifetime registration is just $20.

Barb Heki:                     The convention thing that you talked about, yeah how excited you were, we encourage grandparents to go to conventions whether they’re online like the one you just had, or whether they’re on site, just go to all of them. Because that’s where they capture the vision, and they get ideas, and they get excited about what they can do.

Yvette Hampton:           Right, because then they feel like they can be part of this whole homeschooling experience for their grandkids, which I think is exciting, because when you think about kids who go to traditional school, how often if grandparents are local, how often do grandparents go to the kids’ school play and their sports activities, and all the things that grandparents, their award ceremonies, things like that. I know my parents and my husband’s parents have really worked to do that with my nieces who are in traditional school.

Yvette Hampton:           It’s great to be able to help them figure out how they can play a role of encouragement without playing the role of leadership in the education of their grandkids, because obviously there’s a big difference. You’ve got every so often we hear of those grandparents who really want to be controlling and tell their kids, “This is how you should raise your kids, and this is what you should do,” instead of just trusting that, “You know what, you did a good job raising your kids.” Trust that they’re doing the best job for their family as well.

Yvette Hampton:           Wait, we’ve talked a lot in the movie about how education is discipleship. I am so blessed to hear that your four adult children are walking with the Lord, because that’s not always the case. Certainly, there are parents who love Jesus, and they’ve led their children to Jesus, and their children have chosen to walk away, but I’m encouraged to know that your kids are all walking the straight neuropath. Talk about as your children were growing up, as you were raising your kids, because you homeschooled all four of your kids all the way through, correct, from kindergarten through 12th grade?

Barb Heki:                     Yes, we did.

Yvette Hampton:           So as you did that, and you guys were back in maybe not so much the early pioneer days of homeschooling, but maybe at the tail end of that, but back in the day where maybe it wasn’t as widely accepted as it is now. Did you homeschool because you were running from something, because of discipleship? What was your reason behind it?

Rich Heki:                     Let’s see if we can synthesize this. Because of where our oldest son fell in his age where his birthday was, we had the opportunity basically to decide to put him in school a later year. The suburb we lived in at the time, they had just opened a brand new preschool, and they got a bunch of new teachers in there, because the teachers were all excited to be in this new facility, and everybody’s really excited about it. Then they had an open house, so people that didn’t have children in the school could check it out. So we went and when we left the school we had absolutely no peace.

Rich Heki:                     But because of where Sonny, our oldest son’s birthday fell, we had a whole year to make a decision. We used that time to research, and my wife, we’ll probably come to know just researches everything. She was discussing lamenting about the situation with a friend of hers. We thought of sending him to the Christian school, but it was really not possible for us to afford to do that. So she was lamenting to her friend, “We don’t know what we’re going to do.” Her friend said, “Why don’t you homeschool?” Barb says, “Homeschool? What’s that?”

Rich Heki:                     So she explained what it was, and we started learning about that. At first, I was a little reluctant. I said, “Well, all right maybe we could try this, but we’ll give it like I don’t know, six months or maybe at the most a year, but let’s see how we do for six months.” I’ll tell you, within probably a few weeks after starting the homeschool, we were fully convinced this was the way to go. Then it got to the point where it’s like, “Wow, even if we had the option, I’m sending our children to the Christian school, we would choose homeschooling even over that.”

Barb Heki:                     Right. If we got a free ride for all 12 years, we’d turn it down. There is no way.

Yvette Hampton:           Me too.

Rich Heki:                     So God really did a work in us. Once we really understood what homeschooling was about, and actually started getting involved and doing it ourselves, we were convinced this is the way that God wanted us to raise our children.

Barb Heki:                     What’s neat now that we see at conferences is we see these young married couples coming to homeschooling conferences, and registering for online conferences, and they don’t have any kids yet. They’re already researching homeschooling. We waited until our son turned five and panicked.

Rich Heki:                     Yeah, we waited till our back are against the wall basically.

Barb Heki:                     So, I love it. Just seeing the vision that they have, and they are bringing the grandparents along, and the grandparents are getting excited about it, and they’re looking at all this curriculum, and getting ideas, and it’s really neat.

Rich Heki:                     Yeah, it’s been a blessing.

Yvette Hampton:           It’s such an exciting thing, because even with parenting, I started reading parenting books, and I started talking to people about parenting, and thinking through, “Okay, when we have children, how are we going to do this, this, and this?” Of course, I was one of those moms who thought, “Well, when we have kids, our kids will never throw tantrums in the grocery store.” I was the perfect parent, but it’s the same with homeschooling and that if you know that that’s the direction that you want your family to go, you can certainly start preparing for it.

Yvette Hampton:           I love hearing from moms, and I have a couple of friends who listen to the podcast who don’t have kids yet, and they listen to this podcast, which is primarily about homeschooling. It’s such a blessing to me, because it’s so much fun to think, I love that they’re preparing their hearts in order to prepare the hearts of their children, and for a life that is honoring to the Lord.

Yvette Hampton:           We are talking about discipleship and about the importance of parents discipling their children. I want to talk about grandparents, because this is your ministry. I know you talk about how, and Psalm 78, the Bible actually exhorts grandparents to disciple the hearts of their children and grandchildren. Talk about that, about how that would work. How can grandparents come alongside their grandchildren and help disciple them?

Rich Heki:                     Since you brought that verse up, would it be all right if I read that?

Yvette Hampton:           Sure.

Rich Heki:                     So, Psalm 78:1-8, it reminds us this, “My people, hear my teaching. Listen to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth with a parable. I will utter hidden things, things from of all, things we have heard and known, things our ancestors have told us. We will not hide them from their descendants, we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the Lord, his power, and the wonders he has done. He decreed statutes for Jacob and established the law in Israel, which he commanded our ancestors to teach their children, so the next generation would know them, even the children yet to be born, and they in turn would tell their children.

Rich Heki:                     Then they would put their trust in God and would not forget his deeds but would keep his commands. They would not be like their ancestors, a stubborn and rebellious generation, whose hearts were not loyal to God, whose spirits were not faithful to him.

Barb Heki:                     It’s a worldview change or a change in mindset to try and get grandparents who maybe solid Christians, but they have always viewed school or they view homeschooling now as education, and parents view it as discipleship, because that’s what it is. So that’s the vision we’re trying to get grandparents to grasp is it’s not a separate thing. They disciple the grandkids through everything they’re doing with them. Every moment is 24/7, it’s not 9:00 to 3:00 on weekdays, and to be proactive as they’re doing things, whether they’re teaching a skill to their grandkids, or whether they’re going for a walk in the park, to just be always thinking in terms of look at what God made.

Barb Heki:                     Just bringing discipleship into everything they do with them. Because the one thing about education is it consumes a child’s life for basically from birth or at least preschool all the way through college sometimes, high school and college. If grandparents aren’t involved in the education of their grandkids, they are missing so many discipleship opportunities, because it’s just all their time.

Yvette Hampton:           Yup, I love that passage and just what it teaches to grandparents and exhorts them to take that role seriously. Because they’re leaving a legacy for their kids, and for their grandchildren, and for their grandchildren’s grandchildren and for generations to come. Garritt and I were talking about this actually the other day about what kind of legacy do we want to leave for our kids and for our grandkids. I think that as parents, we need to be intentional about that, because if we don’t have a goal in mind, if we have no idea what direction we’re heading then we’re going to lose our way.

Yvette Hampton:           We have to know what our goal is, and we have to know what direction we’re going with our kids, because we hope that they’re going to take that same direction with their kids. Our family has been studying the book of Revelation, and yeah you talked about it. It’s such just a powerful book. Garritt is doing such a great job of leading us through it, and he’s the first to say how intimidating it is to try to teach through a book that is so hard to grasp. As we’re thinking through that book, as we’re studying it, and as we’re looking at the culture around us, and we’re looking at all of the things that are happening, we’re sent back going, “Well, the end times, they might be here, and the tribulation may come in our lifetime.” I don’t know, may come in our girl’s lifetime, we don’t know, but our job is to teach our kids truth, and to teach them to stand firm, and put on the full armor of God. Because if we don’t teach it to them, then they’re not going to be very effective in teaching it to their kids.

Yvette Hampton:           No, they could be, of course, but it’s our job to do that with them. So I love that you’re so intentional about just leaving that legacy for your kids. I know one of the things that you talk about is how grandparents can make or break homeschooling. I have interviewed well, many times actually on the podcast, and she’s been part of a lot of things we’ve done is Karen Debeus. She talks about how when she very first started homeschooling, her parents were adamant about her not doing it.

Yvette Hampton:           Just like almost to the point of disowning her. They of course now, I mean, the Lord has done a great work in their hearts, but it can undo someone just where you’re just thinking of my parents. I want to still, as an adult, I’m 45 years old, and I still want to please my parents. If I made a decision about my family that my parents were just adamantly against, it would be really hard. I would love for you to talk to the two separate parts of parties in this situation.

Rich Heki:                     There are actually three.

Yvette Hampton:           Okay. So then talk to the three parties in this situation, and how to deal with that.

Rich Heki:                     So we’ve talked a little bit about the first one, which is having the grandparents onboard. They hear about and they go, “Oh yeah, that’s great.” Now, maybe they homeschooled you, and so they’re automatically going to be pro homeschooling. They will be onboard, and they’ll probably do whatever you ask them to do, and then some, just to spend time with the grandkids. That’s the easy, because they’re already there.

Rich Heki:                     Then you’re going to find that there’s some that are support of, but they’re a hands off approach. They just say, “We raised you, whatever you want to do is fine.” They’re okay with it, but they’re also not really engaged. I guess with that, the problem with that is there’s so many opportunities where they could do something with the grandkids, and that there’s going to be missed opportunities if they don’t get involved.

Rich Heki:                     What we want to see is that middle group where it’s like, “Yeah, do whatever you want to do.” That’s great, but we want to see the grandparents ramp it up and actually get involved, so that they can have some of the enjoyment that we’ve had discipling our kids, that they can share in that too, because they have so much to offer probably way more than they realize, because they have all this life of experience that they can bring to the table.

Rich Heki:                     Then there’s of course the third group is the oppositional one. Those are the ones we have to work on, because a lot of times it’s like they may have had a really good experience in their particular growing up and their history with public school or whatever. They think, “Well, it was good enough for me, so why is it good enough for my grandchildren?” Then if they know nothing about homeschooling, it’s like, “What are you doing with my grandchildren?” Because they know nothing about it, and maybe they’ve heard some negative stories about it or whatever.

Rich Heki:                     We got a bigger education process just to them to try to explain why are we doing this? Why is this really the best road for teaching our children, but this is going to be the very best education they can have.

Barb Heki:                     One of the things on the pro side is we have talked to lots of grandparents who actually have moved to the city that their grandkids are in so they can help homeschool them. We’ve talked to families who have moved and say the grandparents are in. So the grandparents can be involved. That deepening of the relationship and the discipleship opportunities are just wonderful. It takes the stress off of parents. You’re not doing it a hundred percent yourself. You’ve got help, and you’ve got support. You’ve got encouragement. You’ve got prayer, and it’s a really neat thing.

Barb Heki:                     On the other side, we had some friends for the oppositional grandparents. We always also tell grandparents and parents that, “Now, we as grandparents had a chance to raise our kids the way that we felt God was leading us to raise them.” Now, it’s our kids’ turn. It’s not our decision. They’re the directors and we’re the supporters. Grandparents, you now need to remember that. Then parents need to remember to ask them for some of the wisdom that they have from all those years of experience.

Barb Heki:                     We had some friends at a church that we went to, that they watched us homeschooling our kids, and they came up to us once and said, “We really want to homeschool our kids. We like what we see among the homeschoolers. We know, and we want to homeschool our kids, but our parents are really against it.” As it turned out, one of the parents offered them a free ride through Christian school for all, I think they had four kids, all four of their kids for 12 years if they would promise not to homeschool.

Barb Heki:                     They buckled too. They didn’t want to have trouble with the grandparents, and wanted to keep the relationship good. So they took them up on that offer, and I was just so sad, because God had given them this vision and this excitement to homeschool, and then the parents just shut it down. The grandparents are really key in how a family operates, because it can be wonderful and joyful, or it can be totally miserable. Sometimes relationships just completely broken off as well.

Yvette Hampton:           Sure. I’m certain that those grandparents meant well. They wanted what was best for their grandchildren.

Barb Heki:                     Yes. That’s a key to remember too in the relationship aspect is that they’re really on the same side, because they both want the best for the kids, but they just have different ideas of what is best, so it’s a matter of bringing them together.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, that is a difficult thing for them.

Rich Heki:                     I was just going to add to that. We try to impress on the parents as well as grandchildren that our parents did the very best they could with the tools they had at the time. Back in the day, homeschooling wasn’t even on the radar, modern homeschooling wasn’t even on the radar at that time. The thought probably never even occurred to them that that could be done, but back in the founding of this country, all the founding fathers were homeschooled. I think all the presidents I believe on Mount Rushmore were homeschooled.

Rich Heki:                     There’s a rich heritage in homeschooling, but now that we have these tools, and in many ways it’s getting more and more easy to homeschool because of the internet and through all the resources that are now available is making the job of the parents that much more organized and easier to do for homeschooling. It’s a little bit easier now in some ways to convince the parents that, but there’s still those opposition out there, and we still have to do a lot of education on that.

Barb Heki:                     There’s two things that I think are key too in dealing with that. One is what is the missing element in all of this, especially for Christian grandparents? The missing element is Jesus Christ, because what educational situation is going to glorify Christ, teach the kids to love and honor Jesus Christ, his Lord and savior. It’s not going to be a public school, it’s not going to happen there. So, to be looking at that.

Barb Heki:                     The other thing is the most effective way to get really oppositional grandparents to come onboard in homeschooling is to get them involved, because it’s hard to oppose something that you are involved in. If you can have them teach a skill they know, that’s pretty easy. Maybe mom and dad don’t want to ask them grandparents to do that, maybe the grandkids can say, “Grandma and grandpa, will you teach me X, X, X?”

Barb Heki:                     Then after that is done, then mom and dad put it in under the proper academic category in their records and stuff and say, “Thanks grandma and grandpa for helping teach science.” We put that in our official records. You help teach them science today. So anyway, that’s a big help.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, I think that’s fantastic. I think one of the greatest things that any grandparent, whether grandmother or grandfather can do if they’re local is to just offer your presence, especially if you have a child … if your child has multiple children that they’re trying to homeschool, or if they’re only trying to homeschool one, and maybe they’ve got a baby underfoot, or a toddler or something like that.

Yvette Hampton:           So just having grandma come over, grandpa come over maybe once a week or twice a week or something, just for a few hours, and hold the baby, feed the baby, fold laundry, help with some dishes, just help in some way. I think that most grandparents don’t understand the desperate need that most moms feel for that support and just for someone else to come alongside them and just say, “Okay, how can I help you? What can I do? Can I just silently fold laundry? Can I just play with the baby for a little bit?” Just to give mom a little bit of a break, and to give her the opportunity to maybe catch up on lesson plans if she wants to do that, or to just sit and read with her child, or to take her older one to the park, or to get ice cream or something like that just so that mom could be more effective in her role as mom, and as homeschool mom, and all the things that she has lined up.

Yvette Hampton:           I shouldn’t even just say grandparents, and that I wish that there were more retired, if you will, homeschool moms who would seek out younger homeschool moms in their churches, in their communities, in their neighborhoods and just say, “Hey, can I come over and just help you? What can I do? How can I be a blessing to you?” Most moms would eat that at. You’ve got the introverted mom who maybe wouldn’t want that so much, but I think that it’s probably not the norm.

Yvette Hampton:           What are some ways? You had mentioned earlier about how grandparents can be involved from a distance. So if grandma and grandpa like you guys, you live a thousand miles from your grandchildren, how can you be involved? How do you find yourselves being able to do that?

Barb Heki:                     A lot of stuff over Skype you can do things. I mean, not Skype, but just online chats, video chats. We’ve written books or short stories together. We’ve done books too like picture books, but we’ll just start out and our granddaughter will maybe write a sentence or two, and then we’ll write a sentence or two, and we just keep writing the story together, or you encourage them in writing the story. You ask questions, “What happened next?” If they’re too young to write, you take down what they say, and type down what they say.

Barb Heki:                     If they’re a teenager, they can go on and type on their own, but just help them with the story writing. A lot of things that they can do online is you can do I mean, just about anything really. We’ve looked at pictures on the internet and studied animals, different things like that. The Fibonacci numbers are really fun, because anything that you can do sitting beside each other on a couch, you can also do in a video chat. You can have a copy of the same book that they have, and you can read it back and forth to each other.

Barb Heki:                     For older kids and teenagers too, that is really reading aloud, and going through a book.

Rich Heki:                     Yeah, possibly they’re learning some Bible verses either through one or just through their folks, but grandparents, it’d be a great way for the children to be learning their verses if they could recite it to grandma and grandma. Then they could coach them and help them out with that.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, that’s so fun.

Barb Heki:                     About half of grandparents live long distance from their grandchildren. So you’ve got half of them doing long distance things, but the other statistic we ran into is that 90% of grandchildren say that their grandparents had a tremendous influence on their values and their behavior. What is that? That’s discipleship, because their values come from being discipled, and the behavior is played out from their values. So grandparents who live long distance should be really encouraged, because they have a huge influence, and they need to take as many opportunities as they can to do things by distance with the grandkids.

Barb Heki:                     Then when they go there, you can do so many more things and continue that. We always bring art projects or science projects in our suitcase and stuff. Now, our granddaughter asks so every time we come, “Grandma and grandpa, do you have something for us in your suitcase?” It’s a neat tradition and a neat memory too.

Yvette Hampton:           I love the idea of grandparents being involved through just activities like reading. How easy would it be for with the technology we have today, it’s so easy and amazing even though you’re not there in person.

Yvette Hampton:           To open up a book, and flip it around, and show them the pictures, and be able to just have them see your faces and get to know you without having to be physically present, it’s the next best thing truly.

Rich Heki:                     Right.

Barb Heki:                     Exactly.

Yvette Hampton:           What a blessing it is that in our day and age, we have the ability to do that. I know we’ve talked about so many times the whole issue of socialization and how that’s the big thing. I know that with a lot of grandparents, because they don’t quite understand homeschooling. That is the number one reason why grandparents are not supportive of homeschooling, because they simply don’t understand it. That is one of the main reasons why we re making this documentary Schoolhouse Rocked, because we really want to open up people’s eyes to, “This is what homeschooling looks like. This is why it’s beneficial. These are the great blessings of homeschooling.”

Yvette Hampton:           Talk about if you were talking to a grandparent. Let’s role play for a minute and say you come face to face with another set of grandparents who were saying to you, “My child wants to homeschool my grandkids and I’m really not comfortable with it, because I think they’re going to be unsocialized.” How do you answer that question?

Barb Heki:                     I answer it with questions. I ask them first, who is it that does the socializing in whatever environment they’re in, whether it’s the home, a public school or whatever. Then what is the content of that socialization. They need to think about what socialization in a different environment really is. Is that what they really want? Does it glorify Jesus Christ? They need to hone down to what they think socialization is. Basically, in a traditional school, it’s going to be the teachers there and their peers, and probably about 10% teachers and 90% peers.

Barb Heki:                     The teacher has a lot of influence too, because Jesus said that the goal of education is to become like your teacher. Do we want the grandkids to become like their parents, or do we want them to become like some random teacher who was assigned to them in a classroom, and students who just happened to sit next to them at a desk? Just to get them to think through that, because they really don’t think through it.

Rich Heki:                     Yeah, and another thing with socialization, most children that I’ve seen that have been homeschooled very readily can communicate with adults, and have a conversation with them. Think about it in a minute, how natural is it to be in a class of 30 children all the same age, not even a variance in the ages. They’re just all with the same age. Then you look at society, where is that replicated in the society? It’s not. It’s just that one particular situation.

Rich Heki:                     We see it as being, people like to throw around the word diversity. It’s a lot more diverse to be in a homeschool setting where you’re interacting with all sorts of different ages, and you’re interacting with parents and a lot of times as homeschoolers, we’ll go on field trips with our children. They get to interact with adults. They get to learn about maybe another occupation and what they do. They’re being exposed to a whole lot more of life than in a closed classroom.

Barb Heki:                     There are going to be kids that are shy and withdrawn in the homeschool environment and in the public school environment. The opposite is true as well. It’s just that people are different. One of the things I did, like he mentioned, I like to research. So when I was first looking in the homeschooling, I had this list of I don’t know, probably 30 questions I asked. I asked the one friend we knew who’s homeschooling for names of other homeschoolers. So I called them all.

Barb Heki:                     When I went through the list of all my questions, and then I asked them for names of people they knew, and so I called all of these people. After about the first three people, I crossed the socialization questions off my list. It wasn’t even an issue.

Yvette Hampton:           Right. Nope, it’s not an issue at all. We’ve learned that and it’s funny. I always chuckle inside when people actually bring that up. I always just want to say, “Look at most kids, not all, but look at most kids coming out of the public school and tell me which one of those characteristics you would like my children to emulate.”

Barb Heki:                     I know.

Yvette Hampton:           Not many of them. Not that every public school child is a terrible example, but many of them are. We know a lot of them. Yeah, and so and not that every homeschool kid is perfect, they’re not. We know a lot of them too, but overall, I certainly would want our kids to have Christlike character and to spend their time with other kids whose parents have the same goals in mind that we do and who are heading down the same path as us. So that’s important. Let’s talk about family tree.

Barb Heki:                     Okay. Family tree is a really fun thing that grandparents can do with their grandkids, whether they’re locally or long distance. Because they’ve got some of the personal memories too that go back further than the parents. The one thing that we tell grandparents to do is to do a twist on the family tree. So don’t just record the names and the dates. You need that to have your framework, but look at character. Talk about what that person was like. Were they a Christian? Were they not? What was their character like? How did that impact their life and what happened to them?

Barb Heki:                     You can get in this stuff, all kinds of discussions on what just the impact of a good character and bad character. That also leads into the goal that we want to get in the lots of discussions with, with grandparents and grandchildren is salvation. Because that’s the key difference. In a family tree, people don’t think about salvation, they’re just, “Who beget who?”

Barb Heki:                     What happened to these people based on their faith or lack thereof, and then that leaves right into a gospel message and a deep conversation with the grandkids about where they stand in their salvation and their faith, that sort of thing.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, that’s fantastic. I love the idea of family trees and going back to figuring out where we came from. Because all of the grandparents have played a role in some way that has led their grandchildren to be where they are in life. Unfortunately, we are out of time for the podcast. I would love to continue going on and on, but I’m so grateful for you. I’m grateful for your ministry to grandparents and to parents alike. Where can people find out more about you?

Barb Heki:                     If they go to our website, it’s just grandparentsofhomeschoolers.org. If they can click on “join,” it’s free. They just fill in the information and then they will get resources and things that we send out. We’re going to be launching some things in the first quarter, new resources for grandparents, and they’ll get messages as to how they can get a hold of this and free resources, so yeah.

Yvette Hampton:           Okay. Fantastic. Am I correct that you actually speak at some conventions?

Rich Heki:                     Yes, we do.

Yvette Hampton:           Across the country, right?

Barb Heki:                     Yeah, and internationally as well.

Yvette Hampton:           Oh wow. Okay. Do you know yet where you’re going to be or are you not exactly sure of the schedule?

Barb Heki:                     We don’t have this everything tied down this one yet, but if they’re in an area where there’s a homeschool convention, or an online convention, they can look for us and just Google us. Yeah.

Yvette Hampton:           Okay. We’ll put a link to your website in there, grandparentsofhomeschoolers.org. Thank you both for your ministry. Thank you for the heart that you have for homeschool families and just for what the Lord is doing through you. You are a great blessing, and it’s been fun having you on the podcast. So, thank you so much.

Both:                     Thank you.

Barb Heki:                     Thank you for what you’re doing. It’s great.

Yvette Hampton:           Thank you so much. All right you guys, thank you for listening. We will see you back here again next week. Have a great day.

Photo by Mary Blackwey on Unsplash – Grandfather and Granddaughter on Beach

Photo by Benjamin Elliott on Unsplash – Grandmother, Mother, and Child on Beach

Photo by Nikoline Arns on Unsplash – Grandmother with Kids Nature

Photo by Paolo Bendandi on Unsplash – BW Great Grandmother with Baby

Photo by Johnny Cohen on Unsplash – Grandfather Holding Baby Up

Photo by Phillip Goldsberry on Unsplash – Grandparents and Kids Gingerbread House Landscape

Photo by Phillip Goldsberry on Unsplash – Grandparents and Kids Gingerbread House Portrait

Photo by Filip Mroz on Unsplash – Grandfather Holding Baby on White Background

Photo by Christian Bowen on Unsplash – Grandmother Cooking with Child

The School of Life

It usually doesn’t take new homeschooling parents long to realize that homeschooling doesn’t – and shouldn’t – look like traditional school. It is one of the greatest blessings of homeschooling that we are able to integrate education, training, discipleship, and even academics into every aspect of life.

Yvette Hampton and Danielle Papageorgiou recently sat down to talk about the freedom and effectiveness of Lifeschooling. In this conversation for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, Yvette talks with Danielle about her passion for integrating education into every aspect of life, and about discovering our children’s gifts, so that they can thrive in the lives God has called them to.

This leads to an important discussion about the blessing of lifeschooling allowing us to continue to train our children even when we encounter unforeseen circumstances. Whether illness, a move to a new city, or a new baby in the home, lifeschooling allows us to continue to train our children while experiencing all aspects, challenges, changes, and blessings, of REAL LIFE.

Listen to Danielle on The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (2/17 and 2/19/2020 episodes)

Yvette Hampton:           Hey, everyone, this is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I have one of my favorite homeschool people in all the world on with me today. She has been on the podcast before, so you may have heard her in the past. If not, you are in for a treat. Her name is Danielle Papageorgiou. Isn’t that a fun name to say? That’s why I’m friends with you, Danielle, because your name is just fun to say. Papageorgiou.

Danielle Papageorgiou: In high school, every girl wanted to marry my husband because they just wanted his last name.

Yvette:                         Probably not the best reason to find a husband.

Danielle:                       Probably not. Yeah, probably not.

Yvette:                         But you lucked out. God blessed you and you ended up with a really good guy. And you have a really great family. We love you guys. So tell us really quickly about your family.

Danielle:                       Okay. I have my husband John. We’ve been married for 20 years now, which I can’t believe. My oldest is 18, Connor. And then I have a girl who is almost 16, and then a little boy who is just a crazy whirlwind and he is eight. So that’s us.

Yvette:                         Yeah. You’ve been homeschooling for how many years?

Danielle:                       Well, I say right from the beginning because I think birth is day one of homeschooling, because we’re always teaching our kids, you know?

Yvette:                         That’s right.

Danielle:                       Right from the womb. And before the… I can’t talk tonight. Before the womb, people read to their kids in their wombs. So, I mean, I say 18 years.

Yvette:                         Yes. Yep. Well, you’ve done a great job of it and it’s always fun to be able to talk to moms who are really committed to discipling the hearts of their children and just pouring into them. We met you a couple of years ago when we attended your Lifeschooling Conference, and that was a new term to us. It was something that we really had done as a family. We just didn’t actually have a name for what we were doing. And so, you’ve got this conference. It’s called the Lifeschooling Conference. And your home ministry really is about how we incorporate schooling into life and life into schooling.

                                    And it’s all about bringing it together and making it just kind of one great big part of our family, because it’s not separate. It’s not like sending your kids to school.

Danielle:                       Exactly.

We are very grateful to have Danielle Papageorgiou as a speaker for the 2020 Homegrown Generation Family Expo. Register for this live, interactive, online homeschool conference today at HomegrownGenereration.com.

Yvette:                         Talk to us about lifeschooling a little bit, and then I actually want to get into talking a little bit about some unforeseen circumstances that might come into our homeschool, because I know you’ve dealt with some of those things. We’ve dealt with some of those things. And so, that will bring some encouragement to families who maybe things just aren’t going smoothly and their whole world is getting shaken up and they’re not exactly sure what to do. So, first, let’s talk about the lifeschooling thing.

Danielle:                       Right. It’s funny that you say you just didn’t have that term for it, because I hear that a lot. People are like, “Oh, well, I guess we’ve been life schoolers.” That was really my heart, is just to, I guess, rebrand the idea of homeschooling because I feel like over the years, it’s really become more and more schooly. And certainly you’ve always had that element because we do what we know. And so, that’s all people have known. They grew up going to school and having the different grade levels and everything’s sort of segmented like that.

                                    But it’s really not the best way, in my opinion. You really have to integrate all of education. I really think there’s a biblical basis for this because when you look at Deuteronomy, I think it’s Deuteronomy 6, and I always mix up if it’s 4 or 6. But anyway, you look at the verses there in that passage, which is very familiar to a lot of us as homeschoolers, and it talks about teaching our children as we walk, by the way, as we sit, and as we just go through life.

                                    And so, if that’s good enough for spiritual things, then why not the academics as well? It just should be this life-integrated approach. So lifeschooling, the official definition is the individualized process of discovering your child’s God-given gifts and talents that happen primarily within the context of your family’s unique situations and missions. And that’s all about our little tagline is emerging life with homeschooling. Because I really want moms to understand, and dads, that it’s okay when things don’t go the way you’ve planned because, typically, life doesn’t.

                                    I mean, in all other areas, how often does life go the way we plan it? It just doesn’t. And that is because God wants to stretch us. He wants to test our faith and he wants us really to rely on him and not on our own plans. A man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps, it says in Proverbs. And so, we need to be open to the Lord’s direction and His leading in our homeschooling. And so, that’s just really my heart, is to help parents just really relax and understand that all of these circumstances that happen are ordained by God and He uses them. And we just need to figure out how that learning can integrate with that, and how we can just make it all work.

Yvette:                         Yes. Yes. I love that you have a whole definition for it, which is really cool because you’ve really thought through this process. I know that you’ve really encouraged me along our homeschool journey over the past few years in that God really does have a purpose and a plan, and has gifted each one of our children in a specific way. I look at your family and your kids, you’re not one who sits down and “We’re going to do math from 7:00 to 7:30, and then we’re going to do science from 8:00 to 8:30, and then we’re going to do grammar. You don’t have your homeschool structured like that.

                                    But knowing your family and knowing your kids, God has really developed in them some incredible gifts. They’re artistic. I mean, your daughter is quite possibly the most amazing artist I’ve ever known of in my life. I’m just stunned by the things that she is capable of doing. They’ve written books. They’ve made movies. They’ve done all of these things. And what’s so cool about your homeschool style and parenting style that I think ties in well with what we really try to do with our girls, is trying to direct our kids to using those gifts and talents and abilities in a way that glorifies their creator because God created them to be able to use those things for His glory, not for ours, but for His glory. And so, lifeschooling allows you to do that.

                                    Then there’s just the practical side of lifeschooling as well. That’s just life. It’s grocery shopping. It’s doctor’s appointments. It’s house cleaning. It’s organization of our home and of our day and trying to just navigate through this life because it doesn’t really come… I mean, some things come easily, but not all of it does. And so, what a privilege we have as homeschool parents to be able to come alongside our kids and help them navigate through the murky waters of life, and at the same time be able to depend on the Lord to help them figure that out.

Danielle:                       Exactly. Well, and it’s funny because we could think all these things are going to just kind of come naturally to our kids, like how to clean the toilet or cooking and all of these things. But they don’t. I remember when I got to where I was about to graduate college and my mom’s like, “Okay, it’s time to learn how to cook.” And I’m like, “I can cook.” I always laugh because my poor husband, when we got married, I didn’t know how to cook. I mean, I made chicken and I’m thinking, “Well, if you just turn the heat up really high, it’ll get done faster.” So he cuts into this chicken that’s burned on the outside and it’s a raw in the middle.

Yvette:                         Oh no.

Danielle:                       And he’s like, “Next time just put it in the trash.” Oh, it was bad. It was bad. And so, all these things are very practical. They’re a part of life and they’re just as important. If not, I think sometimes more important than some of the academics that we think our kids have to know. Like they have to take physics and they have to take chemistry in high school. Well, maybe not. I mean, if that’s not their gifting, God put into them gifts and things that they’re passionate about. And so, we need to really let them do that.

                                    And all the academics… I think of the verse, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.” Oh, I mean, that’s a promise. And so, I just believe that as you’re seeking God’s kingdom and you’re teaching your kids to seek God’s kingdom and His glory, with the gifts that He has put in them, particularly for them, then all these things are going to be added, and all the academics come in so naturally.

Danielle:                       Studies have shown that when you learn things in this way, they stick much better through this real life, practical type of learning. And so, it’s just very practical. It just makes things a lot easier. Like I said before, when life doesn’t go according to the plan because we know that it doesn’t.

Yvette:                         Yeah, Nope. It almost never does. 

                                    We are talking about lifeschooling and how to integrate that into our homeschooling. And so, we were talking about God-given gifts and how we have the opportunity as homeschoolers and as life schoolers to be able to take notice of those things in our kids. I would love to know just how practically you have done that with your children. How have you recognized and discovered those gifts in them? And then, how have you gone about fostering those gifts in them in order for them to be able to use those for God’s glory?

Danielle:                       Well, it’s a funny thing because a lot of moms will say that to me, like, “How do I find my kid’s gifts?” Or, “I don’t know what they are.” They don’t seem to have any gifts or they just want to play computer games all day long. First of all, and this might be a bit of a tangent, but get rid of the computer games or at least cut them way back. You’ve got to have limits on that because it really stifles their imagination and it really prevents them from being creative and figuring out who it is God created them to be. But besides that, I think it’s really a funny thing because they will just sort of come to the surface. There’s no real magic formula as with anything in life really.

                                    There’s no magic formula that, okay, step one, you do this. Step two. And again, that’s because it’s a faith walk and the Lord wants us to trust in Him. And so, you just have to pay attention to your kids. One of the things that I recently created, that I really love, I use it myself, is a Who Is This Child journal. And so, every day I can write down the little things that I notice, the questions that… Right now, it’s Corbin. He’s my youngest. My older two, they’ve kind of got their path and their direction. And I see gifts in my youngest one already, but it’s been really fun to write down the different questions he’ll ask during the day.

                                    Then there’s another section for what I call sparks, so anything that I notice that really captures his attention. I’ll just write that down and that, this is something that maybe we need to explore a little more. So that’s been a lot of fun in that the bottom, I just have a place where you can write a prayer. So every day you just write out this prayer of just, I don’t know, just whatever comes to your heart as a mom and as you’re watching your child develop. And so, it’s just been a really fun resource for me to learn more about my son because I think a lot of it does go back to simple observation.

                                    Sometimes we’re so caught up in the busy-ness of every day and checking off the boxes and doing all the things that we have to get done as moms and homeschooling moms and wives. And so, we can just forget to pay attention. And so, I just think it’s important to be intentional. And I know that’s a really popular word, but sometimes we really do have to just try to be more intentional about that. It is amazing. I remember my friend, Barbara, I don’t know, maybe four or five years ago was like, “I just don’t know what’s going to happen with my kids, what direction God’s really leading them, or how they’re going to use these guests, what He’s going to do with them.”

                                    And I’m like, “Barbara, it’s amazing because the Lord will just bring people into your path, and he’ll just open these doors that you never would have expected. And then, here we are, and her son, Matthew just finished up a movie, a short film that my kids were involved with. My son’s actually the lead in it, and it was accepted into the Christian worldview film festival as a contestant. And so, it’s just so cool to see that. And then, how the Lord used her daughter’s gift of sewing, because she was like, “I don’t know how that’s going to be used.” And so, she sewed all the costumes for it.

                                    When we just, again, just trust in Him and trust in the process, and don’t get so worried, because really, it’s not up to us. I think we carry that weight and it’s so needless because we’re not the homeschool teacher. God is. We’re just the teacher’s assistant. So we need to just trust that process and trust in Him because if we’re doing our best, how is He going to be unfaithful to that? He’s a faithful God and all He asks for is our best. And it’s usually very imperfect.

                                    I will be the first to tell you, I am the world’s worst at scheduling. And it’s always been a struggle for me. But the Lord still works through that somehow. And so, it always amazes me to see that.

Yvette:                         Yeah. I love that. And I love that you do talk about being intentional. And like you said, that’s a word that we kind of throw around

Danielle:                       Kind of a buzzword.

Yvette:                         Yeah. But it really is an issue of being intentional with our kids, and also being flexible in that when they’re not fitting into our idea of what we think that they should be, or how we think they should act, or what career they want to pursue, whatever that is, it’s not up to us. It is, what has God called them to do, not what do we want them to do. And so, I think it’s one of the great blessings of being a homeschool parent, is that we know our kids better than anyone else knows them.

                                    There are teachers all over the world who genuinely love their students. They really do. Most of them don’t teach because they make a ton of money. They teach because they love kids and they want to have some kind of influence in their lives. Unfortunately, many of them have a really terrible influence, but there are many who have a fantastic influence and who genuinely love the kids. But when you’ve got a classroom full of 20, 30, 40 kids, you cannot individually take each one of those children under your wing and nurture their talents and their abilities and their gifts that God has blessed them with and help them develop those things.

                                    And as homeschool parents and as lifeschooling parents, we have such a great opportunity to do that. And it’s not easy. It’s not easy. Sometimes it’s incredibly inconvenient. When my daughter wants to take out the glue gun and cardboard boxes and fabric and paints and make a big mess, I’m looking at that I’m like, “Okay, what are you going to do here?” Then she comes up with something amazing and beautiful. My oldest is very artistic, and she loves to paint. She loves to draw. But she also likes to create things. And so, she got these boxes for Christmas. She made for her little sister, as a Christmas gift, she made these little kind of… It’s hard to explain, but she made dollhouses out of them.

Danielle:                       How cute.

Yvette:                         But they open and close, and so they can travel with them. It was so cool and it was just such a special gift that she gave to her sister. And she worked for days and days, weeks, actually, on these two portable dollhouses. What a privilege. And so, she would go into her little craft area and she would listen to an audio book and she would make these creations, and what a joy. How fun it was for her to be able to do that. Danielle, we are out of time for this part of the podcast, but let’s come back on Wednesday and let’s talk more, because I want to talk about just how to deal with some of those unforeseen circumstances. We talked about that in the very beginning, and I want to jump on that bandwagon and talk a little bit about that.

Danielle:                       Absolutely. Sounds great.

Yvette:                         Yeah. Thank you, guys, for listening. Join us again on Wednesday. And I forgot to say this at the beginning, but Danielle, she is a special part of the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. And so, if you have not yet participated in that or signed up for that, you can watch it live, or you’ll be able to go back and watch replays of that. So she will be speaking about lifeschooling for that event. It’s going to be awesome. Thanks. We’ll see you guys back on Wednesday.

Danielle:                       Bye.

Yvette:                         I just said that and then I realized this is probably not going to air until after the expo.

Danielle:                       Oh, well, do you need to re-record a little snippet or…

Yvette:                         I’ll do it at the end.

Danielle:                       Okay.

Yvette:                         Okay. Where are we on time? All right. Let’s go another 20 minutes. You good?

Danielle:                       Yep. Let’s do it.

Yvette:                         I want to talk about something that not a lot of people really discuss in the homeschool world, but pretty much everybody that I know who homeschools deals with this in one way or another. And that’s how to deal with unforeseen circumstances. There are so many things. Danielle and I were talking about this earlier, and how there are so many things that disrupt our homeschooling.

                                    It could be illness. It could be just a short stint of illnesses, the flu making its way through your family. It could be chronic illness that you have to deal with day in and day out. It could be a move. It could be having a new baby. It could be having a mother or father-in-law, or grandparent, or somebody move in with you that you now have to care for. There are so many things that can derail us. And so, I want to talk about how to handle some of those things.

                                    Danielle, I would love for you to talk a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your family in the sense of this, because I know that there have been some really difficult things that your family has dealt with, but you and your husband, you’ve stayed the course. You have been faithful to what God has called you to do even through the really, really hard times, and you have trusted Him for the outcome. So talk with us a little bit about your story.

Danielle:                       Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to make the point, before I forget, that we have to always remember that at the heart of our homeschooling needs to be relationships. So, first of all, is the relationship that we have to the Lord, and that our children have to the Lord. And then, secondly, is our interpersonal family relationships. I think that if you really keep the main thing, the main thing, and focus on the fact that the relationships have to be the priority, everything else kind of falls into place.

                                    We have dealt with chronic illness in our family for just about our entire marriage. My husband got sick with Lyme disease. It was about two years after we were married. And so, that’s always been a struggle in our family. I’m thankful that he works from home and works in IT, which is something he could do in his sleep. I don’t know how. But God’s just really gifted him in that area. And so, that’s been a blessing that he could be home.

                                    And, of course, me being the homeschooling mom, it didn’t really affect our homeschooling all that much, really. It affected our family in the sense that we just really did not do a lot of family things. And still don’t. Going out to the grocery store is like a family event. If my husband goes and my daughter will be like, “Oh, I want to go.” And so, I think just cherishing those things too is important.

                                    One thing we have always done is had family movie night, and that’s almost sacred to my children. We can’t do anything outside the home on family movie night because that just doesn’t happen. So it’s special time with our family that the kids really treasure. So I think it’s important to have those types of things. But recently, really it was a steady decline for both my children. But first we noticed in my daughter, she would complain about not sleeping very well. And this went on for a number of years. But sometimes you just don’t really know how to help your kids. It’s like, well, take more calcium and magnesium and do this and that.

                                    It was just hard to figure out what was going on. And eventually, through series of circumstances, the Lord led me to do a little more research. She really had like a crash. I enrolled her in this camp and she’s like, “I just don’t think I can do it.” I’m like, “Well, just try to go for one day because we paid for it.” And by the end of the day, I literally almost had to carry her out to the car. She was just so exhausted, and I’m like, “Lord, what do I do?”

                                    And so, we got home and He just really led me to, I don’t even know why, but to research adrenal fatigue. And it turned out she checked off all of the boxes for adrenal fatigue. 

                                    So she’s been struggling with this for probably going on a year now, that we knew about. But it’s been much longer. And just thinking, it’s just really, really hard for her right now. Reading, huge challenge, even audio books, but she does a ton of artwork. And you’ve seen her art.

Yvette:                         Amazing.

Danielle:                       Just the things that the Lord is teaching her through this. And I just want to say something here too. It’s okay if your kids get behind, okay? Like maybe she won’t graduate on time, but what is that? That’s, that’s something that is imposed on us. And so, again, we just have to protect our children and if they can’t do something, we have to protect their health. If I force her to do things that she literally cannot do, the stress level goes up. The cortisol levels increase and it’s just this cycle. And she will literally have an adrenal burnout.

                                    Again, this is her health we’re talking about. What is more important? We have to protect our children. So it’s okay if they get behind. There is no behind in homeschooling. I just want to stress that. She does the things that she can do, and we’re okay with that.

Yvette:                         And you’re also talking about a girl who she does well on her state testing.

Danielle:                       Right. Right.

Yvette:                         The girl has written a book. I mean, she literally-

Danielle:                       She wrote a book, yes.

Yvette:                         … authored a book.

Danielle:                       She started at age nine.

Yvette:                         Which is incredible.

Danielle:                       So if you think of it in that sense, she was ahead and now she’s not as ahead. And she’ll catch up, because that mental capacity, it’s still there. Once she heals, she is going to skyrocket ahead to where she was, and I truly believe that. And so, it does not stress me. We just can’t let it stress us. We have to protect our children and their health.

                                    My son recently, you never expect to deal with these kinds of issues in your kids. But he’s sleeping more and more, and I’m thinking, “Well, he’s a teenage boy. He’s growing.” But then it was like all day long, he’s sleeping and he’s missing meals. So I’m like, “Something is wrong,” And praise the Lord, He led us to a wonderful natural doctor. He’s been helping both my kids now and my husband. But she did testing on him and his cells were not taking in nutrition. He’s really bad off.

                                    He’s graduated. And so, we don’t have that pressure. But it’s hard for a young 18-year-old guy who really wants to just jump into his IT career and really start doing life to be slowed down. But, again, I just see the lessons that the Lord is teaching him through this, and that he has to be patient and wait on the Lord and just learn to trust in Him, because my son is a planner. He when he was young, I mean, you can imagine two people like me and my son. I’m total not planner at all, and my son is super scheduled.

                                    So every night when I would tuck him in, from like three or four or five years old, he’s like, “Okay, what are we doing tomorrow? What’s the schedule?” And it used to drive me crazy. I’m like, “I don’t know. We’ll figure it out tomorrow.” And so, this has been good for him because he said, “I had learned to let go of all the details, but I still wanted God to give me this general direction of where I’m headed. And now, the Lord is just saying, “Nope, you’ve just got to trust me completely, and you don’t know what tomorrow brings, and you don’t know how you’re going to feel, and you just have to trust me.” Yeah. So it’s been an interesting journey for both of them.

Yvette:                         Yeah, it has. I want to just put this disclaimer in there for you, in that you are one of the most healthy people I know, in regards to how you prepare food for your family. And so, you talked about his cells not being able to take in nutrients. It’s not because of lack of them. It’s not that you’re not providing those for him. It’s just that his body is going through something difficult right now and you’re helping to try to figure out how to help him overcome that.

Danielle:                       Yeah. Right, right. And it’s just a testament that no matter how healthy you try to be, we can’t do everything perfectly in this fallen world no matter how hard we try.

Yvette:                         Yeah, oh, sure. I mean-

Danielle:                       Better trust in the Lord.

Yvette:                         We all know people who eat donuts and drink Pepsi all day long and they’re like the healthiest people we know.

Danielle:                       I know, or seem to be anyway.

Yvette:                         We were talking about how to deal with unforeseen circumstances in our lives. And she’s talking about how her family has dealt with some just different chronic illnesses. And we often, as homeschool parents, come face to face with things that are just hard, whether it’s a move or the loss of a job or a new baby. So in this last half, Danielle, I would love for you to really just offer some encouragement to parents who are dealing with that, who are on that side of it and they’re just like, “I don’t know what to do. I’m ready to put my kids back in school.” Not because they think that’s the best option for them, but because they feel like their whole life is just unraveling and their foundation has been shaken up so badly that they don’t know what to do. They don’t know what to cling to. So can you offer some advice and just hope and encouragement for those parents?

Danielle:                       Yeah. Well, there’s so many things that you can do. Again, I think it’s more the way you look at things and your perspective. We have to, first of all, like I’ve been saying, we have to have that perspective really of an eternal perspective, and what is truly most important. When your kids graduate someday, who is it that you want them to be? Not necessarily what is it you want them to learn. That’s important, but who is it that you want them to be because character has to come first.

                                    And so, how can you get them from point A to point B to be that person that you want them to be? I believe that God has equipped every parent to be the best person to instill that character and training into their child to help them develop into who God wants them to be. Then just, I would say, from a practical standpoint in this idea of learning to change your perspective, it’s great if… And this is another resource that I have is a lifeschooling vision planner. And one of the things in there that I really love is this backwards method of planning.

                                    It’s going through your day after the fact and writing down in all the different subject areas and categories, what your child learned that day and what they did. Because it’s very surprising. When you start to document those things, there’s a lot of academics that happens just in your day-to-day routine and going about life. It’s always surprising to me when my children will throw out all these science facts and I’m like, “Where did you learn that?” “Oh, Jonathan Park.” I don’t know if you’re familiar with that series.

Yvette:                         Oh yes.

Danielle:                       But yeah, they grew up on that, and we have all of the CDs and they listened to those and absorbed it. And they recall that stuff later. And so, I think audio books are excellent because it stimulates the imagination. You can pop them in any time. If you’ve just had a baby, just give your kids audio books, give them lots of audio books and lots of real books too because they’re going to absorb all of that stuff and they don’t need you hovering over them all the time to instill the information into them.

                                    We feel like we have to spoon feed our kids, and they’re natural learners. We just have to encourage that, encourage that natural learning and finding that spark and what excites them, and letting them run with it and learn all about that. Because, again, more academics come in to those different things they’re interested in. You’ll find that just all the different subject areas, how they naturally come in when they find something that they really love to do. So, from a practical standpoint, that’s one thing that we’ve really found beneficial.

Yvette:                         Yeah. Yeah. And I think just, we’ve talked a lot about this already, is just trusting the Lord, allowing Him to lead you to lead your families. When we read James chapter 1, it talks about asking for wisdom and it says if you ask for wisdom, the Lord will give it to you. And I think oftentimes we forget that. We forget to ask, Lord, what do you want me to do with this? How do you want me to proceed? How do you want us to move forward with this child who maybe they’re struggling with an illness or, again, maybe we’ve just had a big move and my child is having a really, really difficult time adjusting.

                                    In those times, it’s okay to step back and just say, “You know what? We just moved.” We have some good friends who are just going through a move right now and they’ve got six kids.

Danielle:                       Oh wow.

Yvette:                         That’s a huge, huge deal. And not all of their kids are going to handle it well. And so, you know what? It’s okay to just step back, take a break and just say, you know what? This is one of the reasons why we homeschool, because we have the freedom to be able to do what works best for our family. And in situations like that, they’re still learning. Like you said, they’re learning now how to organize a home. How do you move into a new home? How do you lay everything out? How do you put everything away and figure out where things are going to go in the kitchen, and in the bathroom, and you decorate the walls.

                                    I mean, there are so many life lessons and that’s why I love so much of your ministry, Danielle, because it’s all about lifeschooling. I’ve said this on the podcast many times before. We are raising adults. We are not raising children. We are raising them to become functional, responsible, Jesus-loving adults. It’s not about the academics. The academics are fantastic. They’re important because those are what point them to Jesus, but we’re really raising our kids to be able to go out into the world and function and have some sort of an impact in God’s kingdom. That’s what it’s all about.

                                    It’s not about, did they become valedictorian and get to give an amazing speech in front of 5,000 people at the end of the year? Who really cares about that staff? Honestly. When they come face to face with their savior, he’s not going to say, “Well, how was that speech you gave?” He’s going to say, “What did you do with the talents and abilities and gifts and the hardships that I put before you?” And we realize over and over again, we are so incapable of doing the things that God has called us to do without Him. And when we get to accomplish a thing, He gets all the glory for it. And so it ends up being-

Danielle:                       Exactly. Exactly.

Yvette:                         … such a beautiful thing.

Danielle:                       That’s one of the things that really has always bothered me because our culture does put such an emphasis on academics and intelligence and all of these things. And as Christians, that’s just not what we should be doing. It’s okay to learn a lot and to use those gifts if you’re academically inclined. I think that’s wonderful. But we have to be careful as parents that we don’t let that go to our heads and get prideful about valedictorian, all these things because really, in eternity, that’s not what really matters. God really doesn’t care about that. He cares about what we do with the gifts and the talents that he gives us and how we give glory to Him.

Yvette:                         Right. Right. And He wants us to do our best. We always tell our kids, “Work as unto the Lord. In everything we do, we should do for His glory.” And so, we should always do our best. You talked earlier actually about some kids are inclined to learn chemistry and physiology, but not every kid is. Some are created to be historians and some are created to be scientists. Some are created to be mathematicians. Some are created to be moms. Some are created to be pastors and truck drivers. I mean, there are a million business owners. There are a million different things that God can use us for. So, we have the opportunity to be able to foster that in our kids and encourage them in the way that God created them, even through the hardships and bumps that are thrown at us through life.

                                    We are out of time for the podcast. But Danielle, I appreciate you so much. I love your heart for families. I love your heart for homeschooling. And I am so grateful that you took the time to sit and chat with me today. Thank you so much.

Danielle:                       Thanks, Yvette. I love you guys too. It’s always good to talk with you.

Yvette:                         Thank you. Yeah. Where can people find out a little bit more about you?

Danielle:                       Well, you can go to lifeschoolingconference.com, and I’m actually rebranding, so lifeasalifeschooler.comwill also take you there. We’ve got a blog and lots of information on there and encouragement.

Yvette:                         Okay, sounds great. Well, thank you, guys, for listening. Have a great rest of your week and we will see you back next week. Bye.

Danielle:                       Bye.

Ready to take your children back? Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free tonight and learn how. After you have watched the movie, download the Free Homeschool Survival Kit. This free 70+ page resource will give you the encouragement and tools you need to start strong and finish well. 

Photo by Rowan S on Unsplash – Child with Chickens

Photo by Kelly Sikkema on Unsplash – Girl Running in Field

Photo by Jordan Rowland on Unsplash – Girl in Grapevines

Photo by Markus Spiske on Unsplash – Boy with Dumptruck in Sand

Photo by Scott Webb on Unsplash – Child Playing with Leaves

Photo by Artem Beliaikin on Unsplash – Girl in Field of Flowers