How to Homeschool: A Step-by-Step Guide with Kristi Clover

In a world where the “traditional” educational model has devolved to the point of abject danger and degeneracy, millions of families are seeking alternatives and homeschooling has reemerged as the gold-standard in education. In the latest episode of the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, host Yvette Hampton sat down with homeschooling expert, author, and speaker Kristi Clover to delve into the ins and outs of homeschooling. With valuable insights and practical tips, Kristi empowers parents to embark on this impactful journey. Let’s explore some key takeaways from this illuminating conversation.

For more on this topic, make sure you download our free Homeschool Survival Kit. This 70+ page eBook walks you through every step, from just getting started to graduating your last child with confidence.

“The first thing you need to do is establish your purpose. Figure out why you’re homeschooling, what your goals are, and what you’re trying to accomplish.”

Kristi Clover

Establishing Purpose and Motivation:

Kristi emphasizes the importance of knowing the “why” behind homeschooling. She guides parents to solidify their purpose as the foundation for their homeschooling journey. As she explains, “The first thing you need to do is establish your purpose. Figure out why you’re homeschooling, what your goals are, and what you’re trying to accomplish.” This clarity enables parents to navigate challenges with determination and resilience – even when you experience the inevitable setbacks associated with parenting and teaching your kids at home.

Embracing Flexibility and Personalized Learning:

One of the primary advantages of homeschooling is the ability to tailor education to each child’s unique needs and interests. Kristi emphasizes the importance of incorporating children’s passions into the curriculum, stating, “Find out what subjects and activities really inspire your children… Let them dig deep into those interests.” By doing so, parents tap into their children’s natural curiosity, encouraging enthusiasm for learning and empowering them to become experts in their chosen fields.

Creating a Customized Homeschool Experience:

Homeschooling need not follow a rigid, conventional model. Kristi encourages parents to design their own homeschool experience, emphasizing that it doesn’t have to (and shouldn’t) replicate the public school system. She states, “You don’t have to re-create a mini public school in your home. You can really tailor it to your own family and your own goals.” This flexibility allows parents to develop a curriculum that aligns with their family’s values and creates an inspiring learning environment.

Prioritizing Discipleship:

For Kristi, homeschooling extends beyond academics. It is an opportunity for parents to disciple their children’s hearts and instill a Christian worldview. “Whoever spends the most time with the children is the one truly parenting and discipling them,” she asserts. Homeschooling allows parents to prioritize character development, Biblical values, and Christ-centered teaching while providing a high-quality education.

Seeking Support and Resources:

Homeschooling can be an enriching and rewarding journey, but it also comes with challenges. Kristi emphasizes the value of seeking support from the homeschool community and attending conventions to connect with like-minded individuals and gather valuable resources. She also recommends the Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) as a crucial resource for legal support.

Adapting Curriculum to Suit Learning Styles:

Another crucial aspect of homeschooling is tailoring the curriculum to meet the unique needs and learning styles of children. Kristi encourages parents to evaluate themselves as teachers and create a curriculum that aligns with their children’s learning preferences. She remarks, “As I observed my children, I paid attention to their tactile and visual learning preferences, and adapted our curriculum accordingly.” Kristi shares her experience of initially using a hands-on curriculum for her two close-aged children and then transitioning to more video-based learning materials as her family grew.

Organizing with the Crate System:

One of the key highlights of the podcast is Kristi’s discussion on the crate system, an effective method she uses to organize homeschool materials. Kristi explains how this system promotes independence and provides a manageable view of the week’s workload for students. She shares, “The crate system allows you to put homeschooling on autopilot. It helps you navigate emergencies or personal situations with ease.” Kristi has expanded on the crate system and other helpful tips for homeschool organization in her book, M.O.M. – Master Organizer of Mayhem.

Finding Success in Homeschooling:

While homeschooling can feel overwhelming at times, Kristi encourages parents to remember that it is a calling and a journey of faith. She compares homeschooling to a scene from an Indiana Jones movie, where taking a step of faith leads to finding solid ground. Kristi advises, “Keep your faith in Christ at the center of your homeschooling journey. There may be hard days and challenges, but it is all worth it in the end.”

More on this subject: How to Homeschool: My Original Roadmap

Conclusion:

In this series, Kristi Clover provides parents with a wealth of insights and guidance on how to embark on a successful homeschooling journey. By uncovering the “why” behind homeschooling, embracing flexibility, and prioritizing discipleship, parents can empower themselves to create a tailor-made educational experience for their children. With determination, resourcefulness, and a supportive network, homeschooling families can embrace the incredible opportunity to shape their children’s hearts and minds.

“Teaching children to love the Lord with their whole being is challenging, but my hope is that my actions and life will have a stronger impact on their learning than any curriculum.” Homeschooling is not just about academics—it’s about creating an atmosphere of love, care, and growth within the family.

Recommended Resources: 

Free Homeschool Survival Kit 

“How to Homeschool” the original document that my friend, Holly Learner gave me as a roadmap for homeschooling.

Homeschool Basics: How to Get Started, Keep Motivated, and Bring Out the Best in Your Kids, by Kristi Clover

M.O.M. – Master Organizer of Mayhem, by Kristi Clover

More from Kristi Clover on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Education: The Key to Saving Our Nation – Alex Newman on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Getting Started in Homeschooling – Israel Wayne on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast 

🍿🍿🍿 Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for FREE today!

❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Are you in need of a fresh vision for your homeschool? Join us for 4 days of Homeschool Encouragement at the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. Use the coupon code PODCAST to save 25% on registration today! 

Discussion Questions:

1. In what ways can homeschooling provide flexibility and fewer restrictions, as compared to traditional schooling?

2. What are Kristi and Yvette’s primary goals for homeschooling and why are they important? How do they align with your goals?

3. How does Kristi approach the idea of children making their own choices regarding faith, and what is the role of the parent in this process?

4. What are some alternative teaching methods mentioned in the episode, and how can they be implemented in homeschooling?

5. What are some potential benefits and challenges of homeschooling, and how can parents address the challenges and maximize the benefits?

6. Have you ever tried organizing your homeschool materials using a crate system or any other system? What worked well for you and what challenges did you face?

7. How do you prioritize and choose curriculum materials for your homeschool? Do you follow a specific approach, such as Charlotte Mason or unit studies, or do you customize your curriculum based on your child’s needs?

8. What are some practical ways you incorporate character development into your homeschooling? Have you found any resources or methods particularly helpful in teaching character traits?

9. How do you handle the pressure to create a perfect homeschool image on social media platforms like Pinterest and Instagram? Have you ever felt overwhelmed or discouraged seeing other homeschooling families’ seemingly perfect setups?

10. Have you ever tried incorporating video-based learning materials, such as the ones recommended by the speaker? How has it impacted your teaching and your child’s learning experience?

11. How do you adapt your homeschooling approach as your family grows and the needs of your children change? Have you found any specific strategies or methods helpful in teaching different grade levels simultaneously?

12. How do you handle the challenges of teaching children who may have different learning styles or preferences? Do you customize their curriculum or adjust your teaching methods to accommodate their needs?

13. How do you find and evaluate homeschooling methods and curricula? Do you rely on recommendations from friends, online resources, or attending homeschooling conferences and seminars?

14. How do you balance the desire for academic achievement with the importance of character development in your homeschooling? How do you prioritize one over the other or find a balance between the two?

Read the full transcript:

Yvette Hampton:

Hey everyone. This is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad you are with us this week. We have an incredible guest on and she’s been on with us before. She was part of the Homegrown Generation Family Expo that we did back in March. And we’ve had her on the podcast a few times. And so I’m so excited to have Kristi Clover back with us. We are going to talk this week about how to homeschool because so many people are asking that question, how do I homeschool? How do I do this thing? And so we are going to dig deep into this and I could think of no better person to do this than with Kristi Clover this week. I want to tell you kind of a little story about how this all came to be. So 13 years ago, my friend Holly Lerner, who is a good friend of mine, she kind of has been my homeschool mentor and mom mentor when I very first became a mom. And she’s been homeschooling for quite some time. And so she wrote this two page document for me on how to homeschool. It was literally titled how to Homeschool. And 13 years later, I still have this document. And I came across it the other day. I hadn’t seen it for quite some time and I thought, you know what? There are so many new people homeschooling. And though we talk about homeschooling all the time, I really wanted to do a how to episode. And so I was looking at that and thinking, oh, this would be great. We need to do an episode on this and kind of go off some of her points. And then I had Kristi Clover scheduled to come on today and we were going to talk about chores and how to teach our kids to do chores and teach them responsibility and all of that fun stuff. And so I went on her website to look at some things and the first thing that I clicked on, I don’t even know how I got to it, but the first thing I clicked on was Kristi’s how to homeschool. And I was huh, OK, perhaps this is what the Lord wants us to talk about today. So I called Kristi like 2 hours ago and I said, hey, what do you think about switching gears? Do you want to talk about how to homeschool? And she was like, sure, I’m up for anything. And so we’re talking about this because this is really, I feel like what the Lord put on our hearts to talk about today. And because we have so many new people homeschooling and they’re asking the question, they want to know what to do, how do they do this? So we are going to dig deep into this this week and I hope that you’re going to be encouraged. Kristi, tell our listeners for those who are not familiar with you introduce yourself and your family to us. Sure.

Kristi Clover:

Yeah. So I am a homeschool mom. I’m a veteran homeschool mom. We’ve been homeschooling for over two years now. We have graduated two of our five kids out of our home school. And we have a very unique experience when it comes to homeschooling from the standpoint of we had our kids in a private Christian preschool. We did public school. We pulled our kids out of public school to do homeschooling. So that’s kind of our home school background. Other than that, yeah, I have this whole online life where I love encouraging people. And that is the beauty of getting to do this online, is I feel like I can actually encourage so many families using these online platforms that are available to us. But I’ve written a few books. I have a free book called Sanity Savers for Moms, and that is available on my website for free. And then I also have a book, I’ll just plug it here called Mom Master Organizer of Mayhem. And that’s all about home organization, but with moms in mind because I want you to give yourself a lot of grace. And then I also have Homeschool Basics, which is why we’re talking today. It’s about how to get started, motivate your kids, and bring out the best in your kids.

Yvette Hampton:

Awesome. So many good resources. And we have done episodes with you on every one of those. So back in March, when we did the Homegrown Generation, we talked about sanity savers for Moms. So we’ll put a link to the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. So if you guys have not participated in that, it’s still available. You can still sign up for that. It’s $20. And you have access to the entire conference with Christie’s session as well as all the others, and access to the whole one that we did back in 2020. And that one had Heidi St. John and Kirk Cameron and a whole bunch of other people as well. So, yeah, you can sign up for that and hear that whole session. And then we did another one on your mom book and on Homeschool Basics. So we’ll put links to all those things in the show notes. But before we get into this, we are going to get into the logistics of how to homeschool because that’s why we’re here and that’s what we’re going to talk about this week. But before we do, I want to talk about just kind of setting the foundation for all of this because we can throw out all of the how to’s, right? We can give all the points. You start here, start here, do this next. Next. But really, when it all comes down to it, what really matters is what is your goal? What is your why? Why are you even homeschooling? And so we talk about this on the podcast all the time, but I want to talk through a couple of verses really quickly. And the first one is Ecclesiastes 1213. And this is probably my favorite verse in the whole Bible. If I could choose one that has to be my favorite, this is probably the one that I would choose. And it says, this the end of the matter. All has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man, you guys, that’s it. That’s the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments. And it says the very first few words is the end of the matter. All has been heard. Like, that’s it.

Kristi Clover:

This is what you do.

Yvette Hampton:

Exactly. I mean, I feel like we could just be like and done. That’s how you home school, just fear God and keep his commandments. Right. That really is all that matters is that we fear God and keep his commandments, and then that we teach that to our kids. And as we’re teaching that, of course, they think of Deuteronomy 6:4-9. And this is kind of the homeschool-y verse that you hear a lot of people say, and I think it’s kind of gotten, I want to say almost swept under the rug because people were like, yeah, Deuteronomy six, that’s the thing. But I’m going to read it again, because again, I think it’s so important for where we are today and for what it is that we’re doing in homeschooling our kids. And this is what it says. It says here, o Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk aby the way and when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. And you guys, that’s it. That’s really what matters, the end of the matter. All of this, all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, and then go and teach them to your kids, and teach them when you sit in your house, when you walk, by the way, when you lie down and when you rise. That’s what God’s commanded us to do. And so the very first thing when knowing how to homeschool is you got to know your why. And this is something that we as parents, we really have to take seriously, because this is the foundation of our parenting. This is the foundation of our homeschooling, and it is the most important thing. I know that was a long introduction to this how to homeschool. And people are like, just get to the nitty gritty. Give me my list. And they’ve got their pen and hopefully their Schoolhouse Rocked podcast notes. But Kristi, you speak all over the country on this specific topic and I want you to kind of dig in with us. What is kind of going off of what we started talking about? What is the first thing that parents need to focus on?

Kristi Clover:

Well, I do think, as you said, that understanding the why behind your homeschooling is so vital because that’s what’s going to help you during those hard days. And you’re like, what am I doing? You’re like that’s, right? So I always encourage people to write down your why and keep it posted somewhere so you can go back and look at it helps to have scripture. I love looking at those different scripture references you mentioned. But the other part of it that both my husband are really passionate about is that we really feel like as parents, we’re called to disciple our children. And Vodi Bakum has the most fun way of looking at that deuteronomy verse that you talked about. And he’s like, there’s no public school in the desert. So when Moses is giving these instructions to Israelites, it’s not like, okay, yeah, while they’re at a public school, they’ll do the public school thing. And then when we’re around them, yeah, that’s when we teach our kids. We’re called to train our kids up in the Lord. And I think it’s just so important and I think it’s easy to think when because what I hear a lot from people is, well, if I home school, it’s going to drive us all crazy. Like, I’m going to drive my kids crazy, my kids are going to drive me crazy. They’re going to drive each other crazy. And that’s a very common thing. And it happens. I will just tell you, yes, that’s going to happen. But really it comes back to parenting. It’s calling you to get on top of some different parenting issues that you probably have going on. And that’s really important because I think it’s easy to say, well, I’ll just have the school take care of it. And right now, what we know that’s happening in school, that’s the last place you really want your kids to be. What is happening is no longer a secret agenda. It’s now a very blatant agenda that is coming out into our school systems. And we’ve been fed a lie for a long time. And I think I’ve homeschooled long enough now because this is, I think, our 15th or so year homeschooling. And that you start recognizing this lie that we have been told is that trust us, trust the schools. You’re not equipped to teach your children. We are equipped to teach your children. And that’s a lie we’ve been fed for a long time. And so we’re supposed to put this trust in this government agency that right now is trying to push more politics than academics and so that’s the other part of the issue is you might feel like you’re not equipped. God is going to call you and equip you. If he is calling you to parent your child, he’s going to equip you in that. So that’s really important to understand that if you’re feeling unable to homeschool, you need to lean on in the Lord and find support. There’s so much out there to help you support. And so that I think is really, again, going back to discipleship is really being the heart of the issue and just knowing that God is going to help you, he’s going to give you discernment, he’ll help you find better curriculum. If the curriculum you’re using isn’t working for you, you have amazing resources. Like you guys have so many great resources, especially with the homegrown homeschooling program that you guys put on. It was so good to be a part of that and just to see all the different people that are there. But I always encourage people get to a homeschool convention, find your people. So that’s where you find your people. And then online you can do a Google search and find other homeschool communities as well because those are the people who are going to help you figure out how am I doing this whole homeschool thing when you really look again.

Yvette Hampton:

Big right? And so what you’re saying is homeschooling really is discipleship and discipleship is parenting and parenting is discipleship. And so our kids are being parented by someone, right? They’re either being parented by us or they’re being parented by the public school system or private school system, wherever you have your kids. So whoever has them for the most amount of time is the one who’s truly parenting and discipling their hearts for the majority of time. And so yeah, it is a high calling and it’s a lot of work. It is not for the faint of heart but it is for every parent who has a know. And I think you and I are on the same page. And I know we’ve talked with Heidi St. John about this as like we used to be in that boat where we were. Well, you know, homeschooling is for some but maybe not for everybody. Maybe God’s calling this person to it, but not that person. And we’re now in the boat of like he’s calling all parents to homeschool because he has called all parents to disciple the hearts of their children just as we’ve read in Ephesians or in Deuteronomy and in Ecclesiastes. I mean, that is what God has called us to do as parents. And so it is training up our children right in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. As Ephesians 6:4, it’s teaching them obedience, it’s teaching them to obey. Colossians 3:20 is children, obey your parents in all things. For this. Pleases the Lord. We want our kids to have blessings and so therefore we want them to obey the things that we’re teaching. There’s just so much scripture that backs up our responsibility as parents to teach them the word of God and to teach them all the things of the Lord. And so that is what we’re called to do. So yeah. So your first point, of course, is start with the end of mind and know why you’re doing this. Why are you homeschooling? What is your purpose in doing this? So what would be your next thing now once parents have figured out, okay, here’s our why, we know what we’re doing. We know that we’re called to disciple our kids and to teach them the ways of the Lord. But then they’re like, but what next? What do we do now?

Kristi Clover:

What next? Well, honestly, I mean, if you want to get practical, your next thing is to figure out what your state laws are. So if you have a child, because I’ll meet people that are like, I have a three year old, I want to home school. And it’s like, well, absolutely, teach your kid whatever you want, but pretty much every state does not require you to register a three year old, so you don’t have to officially homeschool. And in the state of California, I’m very familiar with our homeschool laws here, we’re not even required to start homeschooling until our child is age six as of September 1. So there’s some of those types of things. But knowing your state laws is really important, and that is as easy as going to HSLDA, which is Homeschool Legal Defense Association. So if you go to HSLDA, not just Christian some homeschoolees for you, but they have a list of all that you need as far as how to get homeschooling in your state. And so that’s probably the practically figure out your why, pray about it, and then contact HSLDA. And we’re lifetime members because we did the math. We started figuring out we’re yep, yep, might as well pay the lifetime membership. And we love supporting them as well, but they have all the information about how to get started. So in California, we homeschool under a private school affidavit. So we actually aren’t even part of any other kind of a school system. We’re part of the private school system, so a lot of people don’t know that. In fact, fun fact is that California is one of the easier states to homeschool in, which is shocking for everyone. And I think it’s because we’re under the umbrella of private schools. So it’s really saved us a lot of headache as they continue to make all of these fun changes in our public schools. I mean, some of the curriculum they have for the longest time, parents in my area were like, oh, that doesn’t come here. We’re such a conservative part of California. It’s everywhere. And even our church has gotten involved. We’re going to school board meetings and begging them to stop teaching sex education to kindergartners and the content that is in these are pornographic and it’s not healthy for any child. I mean, they’re sexualizing our children at such a young age. So again, it goes back to that why if I were just starting off, if I had a child getting ready to be in the school system, my why would look a lot different now than it did when I started. I think discipleship I want my kids to have a Christian worldview, that’s what’s most important to me is that they understand. I want them to love the Lord with all their heartful, mind and strength and develop a love for learning. And those are really our two goals. And really if they come out with nothing more than just to love the Lord and they hated every aspect of learning, they’re not going to love it anymore in public school. But you know what? That’s my job as a parent, is to introduce them all that I can. And the hardest part, now that I have two young adults again, you may not be thinking this if you’re just starting out or have kids under the age of 18, but your kids get to make their own decision on whether or not to follow the Lord. And it’s our job to present all that we can, to give them as much love and to shine for Jesus. And in fact, one thing I’d like to remind myself about that Deuteronomy verse, Deuteronomy 6 is that what it says is that we’re to put these in our own heart first.

Yvette Hampton:

Amen.

Kristi Clover:

And then we’re to impress them onto our kids. So you need to be loving the Lord and really learning what that looks like and teach your kids how to love the Lord. And that’s not always going to be because you found the perfect math curriculum or writing curriculum that’s important, but your kids hearts are more important. And what’s happening right now is our kids are being thrown into a Babylon. So that’s really the dynamic that we have and we probably have had that for a long time and we just haven’t seen it until COVID wasn’t as obvious. Oh, no. And now it’s crazy to see how revealing they are. I mean, Satanic groups are literally like, oh yeah, we’re out here, we’re for this. Oh yeah, right, exactly. So that’s what again, it comes down to the heart of your child. And I like to think about like when Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, they were all taken like the Israelites were taken captive. And you have I don’t remember the number, but I believe it was millions of Israelite children were being taken away from their homeland and they were being thrown into Babylon, being taught all the cultural things, being educated in the Babylonian style of education, which was very it’s anti God. They believe in multiple gods and all kinds of crazy stuff. And yet at the end of the day. There were only four Israelite kids that we hear that stood up for the Lord. And so that’s what’s important is that we have to give our kids a firm foundation. And yes, the Lord will totally work. And yes, the Lord I was 15 and living in a dysfunctional Christian family when the Lord really gripped my heart, and he can do that for anyone. But I love that I can give my kids this foundation and that, I mean, the Lord’s still going to be at work, but I don’t want them in a Babylon environment. So that’s my little two cent on that is that I just think we are in a different day and age now. And I think if it takes every ounce of your energy, you’ve got to do it. You’ve got to protect your children.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, absolutely. It’s our job to do that. To protect their hearts, protect their bodies, protect their minds, protect their souls. So we’re here to help you do that. You said you’ve been homeschooling for somewhere around 15 years, right?

Kristi Clover:

Kristi yeah, about 15 years. Graduated, two kids so far. So we’re doing it.

Yvette Hampton:

So cool. Yay.

Kristi Clover:

It’s working.

Yvette Hampton:

And they’re still functional adults, which is amazing.

Kristi Clover:

Full time jobs. My oldest is married. I didn’t even think I mentioned that on the Monday’s episode. Yeah. My oldest, I am a mother of I’ll tell you that’s. Busy adding that 6th child, that was the easiest thing ever. No morning sickness, just a really day and then voila, I have another addition to our family. It’s awesome.

Yvette Hampton:

That’s so cool. I love that. I look forward to getting to that point. We’re getting there quickly. Brooklyn’s going to be a senior this year. Oh, man. I know. It’s so fast. It is so fast. We will have a middle schooler and a high schooler. Who’s almost done with high school. Yeah, I know. I was looking at my calendar the other day and the co op that we’re doing this year with both my girls, they have a graduation planning meeting and I was like, I have to go to a meeting to plan her graduation. It’s just so surreal and it’s weird. Like, I remember when I was pregnant with her, this was probably about two weeks before she was born and just thinking like, how surreal it was. She’s almost here. She’s almost going to be on this earth, out of my body, and how bizarre that reality was. And so getting to this next phase of life, because it really is the next big phase. She’s going to adult now. Yeah, it’s bizarre. And I’m so thankful that the Lord’s given us all these years to home school and to be able to build a relationship with her and with my youngest daughter. I mean, I’m so very grateful for that. Which on a quick note, I’ve said this, I think before on the podcast, but I’m going to go back to something you talked about on Monday, you talked about how oftentimes parents will say, oh, just the thought of being with their kids all day and their kids being with them and them being with each other. And one of the things I’ve realized is that oftentimes parents who don’t home school, they think that they don’t want to be with their kids or can’t be with their kids because their kids will drive them crazy. The reason their kids drive them crazy is because they’re not the ones raising them. Someone else is raising them with their own morals, standards and values and beliefs. And not that your kids are going to be perfect if they’re in your home, but when you’re raising them your way, it’s a very different outcome usually than when someone else is raising them and you have them in the evenings and on the weekends and on spring break and in the summertime. And then you think, I don’t really like this kid. I don’t like the way they act. Take them in, take on that role of full time parenting, not part time parenting, and see how things change. I think people will be really surprised to see what the Lord does and how he can work through you and your kids lives you have on your website. It’s a home school webinar. It’s the how to home school webinar. It’s kind of a crash course. I want to go through that and I want to do like the crash crash course. The crash course of the crash course. We do the crash course.

Kristi Clover:

We can do the crash course of the crash course. Yes. If you need more help in the crash course, right.

Yvette Hampton:

If you need further explanation things, we will put a link to that from Christie’s website as well. But we talked about setting that foundation. We talked about HSLDA and knowing what your state laws are and really knowing the why of homeschooling. What would be the next thing that parents need to consider when know here’s.

Kristi Clover:

The thing is that I’m going to speak to the families, okay? So if you are pulling your kid out of school, so you already have kids in school and now you’re going to be homeschooling them at home. Honestly, one of the biggest recommendations I have. And it was something that was told to me when we first started homeschooling, because it was a kindergartner and a first grader out of school is you need to spend at least a good month, if not just your first year of time, just getting back to being a family and what that looks like, because you’re changing the dynamics. And so sometimes you don’t even need to home school with curriculum and that blows people’s mind. I mean, math is one of those things, like math and phonics, like learning to read and math are two things that are helpful to have some curriculum. But there’s so many ways to learn that’s kind of a little unschooling. So you might be if you’re one of those parents, you’re like, yeah, that’s all nice and pretty, Kristi, but I need curriculum. Then there is curriculum out there, but I just want people to know that you can homeschool and kind of do it the easy way. You can study science by looking out and seeing what the weather is. Track the weather, see what that looks like, compare the weather to your area, to other areas that’s learning science. Maybe go to the library, check out some books on weather. You can pick up a rock and see what’s underneath it and study that. We tend to kind of study what’s around us. So we have hummingbirds that are constantly building nests in our yard. So we did a whole little unit study on hummingbirds. And for those of you that I just dropped a word that is a home school ease word unit studies that’s simply taking a subject and building curriculum around that and not like official curriculum that you’re taking something like a hummingbird. And I’m going to find some books about hummingbirds, I’m going to learn science. Maybe there’s not so much history around hummingbirds, but sometimes there is. You’d be surprised. Like with cats, you can study the history of cats in Egypt, cats in other countries. So there’s so many fun ways to really learn how to learn. And that would be my encouragement to families is don’t feel bogged down by all of the choices that you have and sometimes that is just what you need. You need a gentle start. Open your Bible, maybe get there’s some great missionary books out there. YWAM has a whole series of missionary books that we really enjoy. One of my favorite books is about to blank on, oh, I need to go get it. It’s hero tales. That’s the name of it, hero Tales. And it’s just snippets of different missionary lives and they also have like a character study on there. So when you learn about missionaries, you can learn about the countries that they’re from. What are some of the unique things that are happening there? What are some cultures and customs of those things? Find them on a map. So there’s so many ways when you start homeschooling, you really learn how to make it a lifestyle. So that’s my encouragement to those who are pulling their kids out. If you’re pulling your kids out of high school or you’re pulling them out and starting into high school, you do need to be more deliberate. I would say like 2nd, 3rd grade down, you can totally be relaxed about your start for homeschooling. Just stick to the basics, have fun with it. But then if you’re homeschooling, like even junior high to high school, you can know because especially for high school, you’re building a transcript. And so that’s just as scary as it might sound. You are calling up HSLDA, looking on their website, finding.

Yvette Hampton:

Out.

Kristi Clover:

And again, HSLDA is Homeschool Legal Defense Association. There are lawyers in the homeschooling realm, and they’ll show you exactly what’s required in your state law to graduate your child, and it will blow your mind. It will blow your mind, because we got used. I was just sharing with this with someone today at coffee that when we go through high school, we think, oh, four years of English, four years of science, four years of math. And it’s shocking that in California at least, it’s like two to three years of English, two years of math, two years of science, and they graduate. I mean, it is crazy to see what’s required in your state, and so that’s all you’re paying attention to is what’s required and then have fun with it. And another important part of starting off is what are your kids interested in? And learn about that, and that is going to spark their interest. So when I first told the kids, because we were a few weeks into this school, and they’re having fun at recess and all that, and so my oldest was like, more time to read. Okay, let’s home school. I can read all day. And then my second at the time, he was like, but I just want to play soccer all day. Can I do that? And then I was like, well, no, we can’t do soccer all day. We can play more soccer than you can do at school. But he was so cute. I’m like, So what do you think? He’s like, can we do a volcano? And I was like, absolutely. We are going to build a volcano. So we ended up doing this cute little unit study on Hawaii. So we learned about Hawaiian culture. We happened to have a Hawaii vacation that we were tying it into. So we went to Hawaii. We took microscopes in Hawaii and learned about the sun and how intense it is. And I brought chocolate. And I learned this is like this cute little science project I read about. And I learned you should always bring extra chocolate for your children to eat, because as we were burning, I was showing how intense the sun is when it goes to the microscope, and it burned the chocolate. And they’re like, that’s cool, but can we eat it? I’m like.

Yvette Hampton:

Right.

Kristi Clover:

Sorry. So bring extra chocolate. That’s my hack for you and for mom, too. And yes, that’s a must. So homeschooling and chocolate go very closely together. But no, just figure out what your kids are passionate about and what they’re interested in did. Because I had little boys at the start of our homeschool journey, so we did knights, and so we studied the medieval period, and we learned about all these crazy things. And we did Egypt, because Egypt’s a fun thing to learn about with boys. And so just find what they’re interested in. And as you’re building when you go into high school, what’s amazing is how it takes what is it like, however many thousands of hours to become an expert at something. We have that opportunity to do that in our home schools because our kids have more time. We’re not spending all of the changing class periods changing teacher time. We’re in there. We get it done. We’re usually done by lunch. My high schoolers go a little bit beyond lunch, typically, but my oldest has a passion for reading and for writing, and so I just let him go in that area. We centered a lot of his homeschooling around writing. He wrote two novels by the time he was 17. He didn’t publish them, but he wrote two novels, which is a huge undertaking. Then my second, who we graduated, he had a real passion and infinity and just an inspiration with photography. And so he was always writing. It rained. He was, like, out the door with his camera. He wanted to catch the dew drops and the raindrops falling off the flowers, and so we just were able to really get him involved in learning about that. Now he’s a professional photographer, and my oldest son is working, and he’s doing copy editing with his job. And so it’s just so cool to see how you can really look for these strengths. You can build up the weaknesses, but look for those strengths and pour into them and just let them flourish. And that’s something that you can’t do in other things. So I’m hoping that by saying all that, it will really encourage people that you have to take off these, like, well, what are they learning in public school? I need my home school to look like the public school. This is your school, and honestly, we can say that, so we’re blue in the face. It’ll take three years. This is honest to goodness three years of homeschooling before you, ah, I don’t care what the public schools are doing. This is my home school. And it’s like, just breathe a little, but just keep reminding yourself that Christine Yvette told you that this is your home school and you can design it the way you want to. It doesn’t need to look like the public school.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, I love the three years. That’s so funny. And I think you’re spot on because that’s about how long it took me to realize, oh, okay, so this is not going to look like my schedule. That looked like the public school schedule. And it was so frustrating because I always felt like I was failing my kids and I was failing myself, and I just was doing it all wrong. And so it took about that long, and so, yeah, learn it before you don’t do the three years. Just skip the three years of trying to replicate regular, traditional school and do it the way that works best for your families. Kristi, you’ve got five kids and you have a wide range, so your oldest is how old? And your youngest is how old?

Kristi Clover:

21. Down to nine, actually. Well, and by the time this airs, she’ll be ten. So that’ll give her some credit there. She’s going to be like, mom, I’m ten.

Yvette Hampton:

Right? Yeah. Not nine anymore where credit is due. Right.

Kristi Clover:

So we have eleven year gap.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, especially when you get into those double digits. I mean you got to give her the double digits.

Kristi Clover:

My baby is going to have double digits. Oh man, breathing through that.

Yvette Hampton:

Oh, it’s okay. Deep breath, deep breath.

Kristi Clover:

I know.

Yvette Hampton:

So you’ve got an eleven year age gap with your kids. It’s the question of course, that everybody asks, how do you home school with all I mean, that’s a big range of ages and different grades and different levels for everything. So tell us what your typical homeschool day looks like.

Kristi Clover:

Well, my typical homeschool day now looks a little bit different because everyone is in our home school. So it’s a little easier with everyone homeschooling and everyone is a reader now. So I’ve kind of entered into that sweet spot where we have all readers because once you have readers, it actually does get a lot easier. So I always tell people that it’s when you have the pre readers, it’s a little more complicated. So the number one thing is to whether you because I’ve homeschooled through it all. So we started homeschooling with two kids in kindergarten and first grade, and I had a toddler, which is honestly one of the hardest parts of homeschooling is working around your toddlers. So babies, you can totally work around their schedule because their schedule is kind of what you put them on. But toddlers are like, why aren’t we playing? We’re supposed to be playing. So my number one recommendation if you are homeschooling with young kids alongside of your school age kids, is to have a game plan for those kids. Don’t just think, oh, I’m planning my curriculum. You need to plan your curriculum or plan what you’re doing for them, your school age kids, but then also have a game plan for fun. Let them be part of your home school around two and a half. They’re like, school is fun because you’re giving them coloring books. I would make copies of what I was doing with the older boys and they were just scribbling all over it and they’re like, yeah, we got this. That is my recommendation there. And I actually part of my how to homeschool webinar and part of my homeschool organization course. Both of those have a whole section just about how to juggle that how do you homeschool and you have big kids and little kids in the house because it’s really important. It is a juggling act and it is difficult, but it’s totally doable. I just want to encourage you that it’s totally doable. And so I have a lot of very specific tips for that. But my typical schedule now, as it kind of always is, is that I try to divide up their work between work that needs to be done with mom and work that they can do independently and sometimes that’s kind of a combo. So I might have to introduce a sheet so I might be talking through a grammar worksheet or a math page and kind of giving them some information about how they’re going to be doing this and then they can do the rest on their own. So penmanship is pretty much always on their own. So they save all of those for either when I’m working with another sibling or for later on in the day. And I say that because it helps with making kids focus. So by the time we hit lunch, if they have had a focus day and they need more help, yes, of course I help them, but they just know that the work that requires my help needs to be done before lunch. So morning time, I’m 100% there. I’m switching off between kids so I’m having them do some of the independent work while I work with another and then we switch off and kind of trying to figure it out. Most of my time is usually with my younger learners and my older kids all learn kind of they start learning how to organize themselves and how to structure their days. That’s just part of the rhythm that I try to teach them and it teaches them independence as well. But that’s really what I try to do because we’ll also have those kids who will just not get to their work and will find every excuse not to do their work. So it was helpful for me to say, well buddy, we need to make sure that we have this done earlier. So I’ll probably give them a little help in the afternoon. They’ll be like tomorrow. And I’ll give little reminders for that child. Sometimes the ones that tend to kind of put it off is like, okay, remember, mommy’s going to go run some errands later this afternoon. So if you need me and you need my help, then this is what we do. And my next bit of information between the mornings and the afternoons and dividing up what is the mom time stuff and the independent stuff. And again, that’s why high school sometimes will go later because they’re doing mostly independent at that time, sure, but also just helping them to kind of I don’t know if you’re this way, but I find that there’s some subjects I don’t get to and so I move those up front. So if I’m not getting to writing then guess what our very first subject is of the day is going to be writing. Because I’m fresh in the morning, my kids are fresh in the morning and that really helps us. And so I try to move the things that by the end of the day it’s the subjects. And it’s the things that I’m like, I’m tired. I’m the whining kid. I’m the one. I’m like, Are we done yet? The kids are like, no, mom. So I find that I need that extra motivation because we’re doing our read alouds up front, but really looking at how you can structure things. And you know what, one of the things we did when we had especially babies that weren’t sleeping well, I was trying to do sleep training and homeschooling and all the things. And my husband traveled for like 20 years of our marriage, so most of my homeschooling, of my older boys, he was on the road. So it was me and five kids. And so we had to juggle that. What I found is oftentimes when the babies are going to bed at like 738 o’clock, then I’m doing a read aloud or I’m doing our Bible time at that time. So there are some times in some seasons of our lives when I would just kind of pick some things to do in the evening because it was just easier to do it then. So that’s a few of my little tips for kind of routines. But you don’t need to have and I do say routines. I try to tell people, please don’t try to schedule your whole year into a teacher planner because you’re just going to have a mountain of eraser dust. And so that’s one of the things that I try to teach in my homeschool organization course, is really how to strip that from your mind. Because that’s the first thing I did when we started homeschooling. I bought a teacher planner because I’m like, well, that’s me too, at Target.

Yvette Hampton:

Which I’d never buy anything at Target now, but I did 13 years ago, right?

Kristi Clover:

And you just end up erasing. I don’t think I made it more than a week into it when I was erasing and drawing arrows and trying to figure out how to put tabs on it to know where in the world I was. And so I really try to teach people in my organization course how to take things by week, how to divide it out using the table of contents. So there’s lots of strategy to really simplify, and especially for you as the parent, because we can really drive ourselves insane when we’re trying to plan out. Some states require 180 days. We’re like, that’s 180 days of planning. Please get that off your brain. That is so much more complicated than looking at 36 weeks or 34, depending upon your state. So that’s really how I try to simplify things. And what I’ve learned later in life, and actually I’ve learned this about myself through homeschooling, is that I actually have add a little bit of ADHD hyperactive. My mind’s always going. So that’s my h. My brain makes me creative, makes me be able to do interviews like this on the fly. But I’m also easily distracted. What I’ve learned is, if things aren’t simple, my brain literally puts up a strike sign. They’re like my brain is just like, no, you think that you want to do that, but we’re not doing that. And I cannot get myself to do it unless I have figured out the simplest way. And then my brain’s like, okay, I can do this. So I think that’s what’s really unique is that I have really had to learn how to be efficient in all that.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, I’m exactly the same way, and it definitely works for me. I’m pretty sure we answered a question similar to this on a Q&A that we did recently with Aby. And we talked about planning. And one of the things that I said was, I learned this years ago, was to get a notebook, just a spiral bound notebook. And each day and you could do it by the week if you really wanted to, if that makes you feel better. But each day, just write down what the next thing is that your kids have to do. So each kid has their own spiral bound notebook. Write down their checklist. My girls like, checklists, and I like, checklists. It just makes me feel accomplished. And there’s that satisfaction in checking off the thing that you’ve done. And so, yeah, it’s so much easier to do it that way.

Kristi Clover:

But you do have to kind of.

Yvette Hampton:

Plan out here’s our course of action, what’s our goal? And I think it’s important to know what our goal is for the end of that year.

Yvette Hampton:

Kristi, we talked last time at the end of our episode a little bit about scheduling and what your schedule looked like with your kids. I want to talk a little bit more specifically about curriculum today because I know this is one of the questions that everyone’s favorite questions when they get started. We talked about kind of deschooling and starting slow for those younger years. But talk to the mom who maybe she’s pulling in her middle school kid or her high school kid or maybe even elementary school, and she’s just like, I want curriculum. But there’s so much there’s so much to choose from. And I think this is the most at least for myself, this is the most overwhelming part of homeschooling is knowing what curriculum to choose because it can get really expensive. And then how do I choose it? And then once I choose it, what do I do with it?

Kristi Clover:

How do I use yeah, so that’s a great question. And I think that it requires an honest evaluation of yourself as the teacher because your curriculum needs to be something that will work for your kids learning styles, and you’re probably just figuring that out. When you’re a new home school mom, you probably have observed certain things, like, are your kids very tactile? They tend to listen better. Do they tend to visually see things. And really, when you’re incorporating all of the senses, that’s when they’re learning best. But you also have to pay attention to your teaching style because I only have the capacity for so much. And so when we first started homeschooling, we had two kids in school and we had a toddler. I was able to do more hands on type of curriculum, curriculum where we were doing more things together because my oldest two are so close in age, they’re only 17 months apart. So I could kind of teach them together except for reading and math, which those are usually the two subjects where everybody’s kind of learning incrementally and they build upon each other. But in all the other subjects, I was teaching them together. And so that was a lot easier until I suddenly had high school and junior high and elementary and a baby and someone else in between, like a toddler. It’s hard when you have this big stretch. So that’s when I had to get real and be like, I can’t really set up all of the things that I thought I could. I needed more video based learning. And so our math curriculum is video based. Our writing curriculum is more video, in fact. Yeah. As much as I love IEW and I love all things fun and fabulous, such a great curriculum, I also know okay, I’m going to be very honest. Andrew, if you’re listening, don’t listen to this part. I have never completely finished the all things fun and fascinating. I’ve gotten at least halfway through with my kids, but I rely on andrew poudois to teach my children. So we have just gotten to a point where that’s what I do with my kids. They watch Andrew on the TV, and then they do their thing, and then I can kind of come in and help from.

Yvette Hampton:

So just for those of you who are like, what in the world is she talking about? And who’s andrew Poudawa is the founder president of IEW, which is the Institute for Excellence in Writing. They’re one of our sponsors on the podcast. And we’re not talking about them because they are it’s because we’ve used them. You’ve used them, and it’s fantastic writing curriculum. And so a lot of their curriculum is video based. I think almost everything they have, not all of it, but a lot of their main is video based. And so Andrew kind of like CTC math, teaches your kids how to do math online. Andrew Poudawa, who’s the founder, he does basically like the classroom lecture, but he’s mean, so engaging, and they’re fantastic videos. And so you can do the curriculum with your kids, but he teaches it to them for you so that you don’t have to teach. So that’s what she’s talking about. I wanted to just clarify that. So people are like, who is Andrew?

Kristi Clover:

Andrew, what is she talking about? Yes, I try not to do homeschoolees, and I did it, so I apologize. Institute for Excellence in Writing, IEW yeah, those were a few of those real moments. And what’s great is that here’s the other thing, is most curriculums do have a resource where you can call in and ask, and they do. And so I was like, I’m not getting to writing. I’ve tried doing it in the morning. I’ve got too many kids doing different levels of writing. And so I was like, okay, so they helped me figure out this would be good for these kids, this would be good for those kids. But I had to get very real with myself. So my Pollyanna, optimistic person of like, I can do it all. Yeah, that did not happen. That didn’t play out past the first week of homeschooling. So when you’re picking curriculum, I would encourage you to think how many age levels if you have kids clover together, then it’s going to be easier. I still combine history and science with at least two kids in my home school, if I can’t get them all kind of under that umbrella. So this year, for instance, my son who is doing 9th grade work, he did American history using sunlight, whereas the girls and I did American History using not grass. And we read that together. So he was able to do his work independently. We were able to do our work independently. So there’s a lot of different things like that. But you need to really pay attention to typically there’s multiple subjects that you’re teaching, so you want to see what is your capacity, do you have young kids in the house. When you have babies and toddlers in the house, I encourage people, especially if they have younger ages of school age kids, please just stick to the basics reading, writing, and arithmetic and incorporate science and history into those subjects so you’re not killing yourselves. Because what people do is they’ll break down language arts. Okay, I need a curriculum for vocabulary, writing, penmanship, grammar, whatever, other spelling. So you’ve got five language arts that you buy curriculum for those, and then you’re like, oh, history, geography, oh, I should do math work, which is I guess, geography. Then we’ll do math, we’ll do math concepts, we’ll do like, math theory, and then, oh, we need Bible, we need Bible theory, we need worldview. So you end up having like 20 things that you think you have to teach. And that’s one of the reasons why when here’s something straight from my course. So what I always encourage people to do is create a course of study. And so what that is, is you’re taking each subject you’re required to teach in that, like in our school, Bible is number one. So state doesn’t require but clover, we require that in our school. So I write those down and then I write down the curriculum that I’m going to be using or I’m thinking about using, and then I kind of take a look at it and say, oh, can I use this here? And so that helps me to see, do I have a gap? Am I hitting everything I need to hit? Wow. Because sometimes you can skip over. You’ll save so much money when you do it like that. And so really trying to see how you can spread things out, does it look like a lot on paper? Because it’s going to feel like a lot for your kids. And so that’s another thing, is please give your poor children a break. They don’t need to do everything all the time, so you can even split things up. I think that’s a common misconception because we look at the public school like we talked about earlier, and we look at the public school and say, okay, how do I teach all these subjects all at once? Because that’s what they do in school. And that’s not what you can seriously have like a month of doing science and a month of doing history and a month of however you want to do it. You just need to teach them little samples and you’ll figure it out. And the best advice I can give to families trying to figure out where to start with curriculum is just start with something. You can start at costco. You can honestly go to Costco and get the workbooks and just have your kids do some workbooks. Get some books from the library, pull out your Bible, and that can kind of be your simple starter. But you can change the if your child is hitting their head up against a wall because they’re just like, this is so hard, then you might not have a curriculum that works with how they’re learning. The other thing that’s really important to understand is that when your child’s getting frustrated, so when you feel the tension rising and they’re getting frustrated, oftentimes it’s because you’re going too hard too fast. So it’s time to hit the pause button. Who cares what you’ve had planned for people going through my course, I’m like, I don’t care what’s in the crate because I teach people a crate system. You’re going to stop right there and you’re going to give your kids a break and let’s make sure that they have some fundamentals. And I think all of my kids have gone through this with math in particular. There just comes a point where they’re learning learning and then they’re just frustrated. And what it usually comes down to is that they don’t have their fundamentals down. So we’ll take like up to a month sometimes, take a break from who cares, take a break from the curriculum, and we’re just going to do math drills. And so we’ll just focus on times tables or focus on addition or subtraction, just really get that so that they can answer those questions four times three and they’re like, twelve, they’ve got it down. And that is going to be what makes all of the harder like the upper division math so much easier when they really have those fundamentals. And so sometimes it’s not a learning. I think some parents like, oh no, my child is a learning. Oh no, this is a parenting issue. Sometimes it’s just you have the wrong curriculum or sometimes you need to hit the pause button and scale back. Same with phonics as well. Same with reading. It’s okay. I think in society people are just like, your child’s not reading by age five or six. Like what? I have a friend, I know, I have a girlfriend and she still to this day has not told me which of her children, but one of her sons did not read until he was twelve years old. And he went from not being able to read at twelve years old to reading like the Bible aloud to the family reading chapter books. Because sometimes you just have to wait for the brain to get it and then it just takes off and they catch up like that. So never be worried if you feel like your child is behind, your child is learning at their rate. And when the brain gets it, then it’s so amazing to watch. And for the record, that friend that has five kids, all of them have master’s degrees. So it’s not like, oh no, didn’t read until twelve. They were phenomenal. And honestly, I even hate saying that as some sort of a line because I don’t even believe that you have to. And this is probably shocking for everyone. I am so out of the box now of like, you have to do this and do this and do the formula. I don’t think you need the piece of paper. There’s a lot of things that you can do that don’t require that. And by piece of paper, I mean college degree.

Yvette Hampton:

That $150,000 of debt rocked onto it, right?

Kristi Clover:

No, I mean, we are totally thinking outside the box. My husband used to be in the financial industry because every time he mentioned we homeschool our kids and they’re like, well, what are you going to do about college? He’s like, well, actually, my kids can get into college easily. And our oldest is in college, almost done, but he’s doing online and he’s working full time and he’s married. Yeah, and he’s married and supporting his wife. And it’s just this beautiful thing that when you think outside of the box and you have to do that in homeschooling and what you’ll find is that it becomes a lifestyle. And again, it takes three years. I know it’s going to drive everybody crazy, but it’s going to take three years until you go, I think I got this down. I think I know what I’m doing. But it takes that long. So just give yourself grace. In both of my books, I’m like the name of the game is give yourself grace. It’s okay. Yeah, it’s going to be okay.

Yvette Hampton:

One thing I want to say, going back to curriculum is I think one of the greatest things we can do is find maybe three people whose kids are around the same ages as your kids or maybe a little bit older. Ask them what they use, and ask them, especially during the summertime, if you can borrow their curriculum just for like, two weeks, bring it home, look through it yourself, see if it’s something that would work for you, and then look at it with your kids. And see if it’s something that would work well for you and your kids. Or you can look at it online. A lot of companies, I think every one of our sponsors, has trial things that you can do for free. They have free lessons that you can try out, stuff like that. So try it out for free before buying it.

Kristi Clover:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

But ask your friends what they use and what they like about it. And not that you have to do what they do, but that’s going to really help you to narrow down what might work best for your family and maybe friends who do things a little bit differently. Maybe you’ve got a friend who does more Charlotte Mason style and one who’s more unit studies and one who’s more classical. So figure out what works best for your family, talk with your friends and see if that curriculum that they’re using might be a good fit for you. Okay, Kristi, because I want to get back into this really quickly. I want to talk about. You talked about a crate system and organization. I want to talk about organization. Like, how do we organize our homeschool day? Now, we have set the foundation. We know why we’re homeschooling. We know what our goal is. We know where we’re going with it, right? We know what the end goal is. We talked about what our day might look like. We talked about curriculum, what now? How do we put it all into practice? How do we organize it all and actually put it into play?

Kristi Clover:

All right, so how to organize your home. I love again, my brain works a little differently as far as I really was looking for ways to organize our homeschool. And that’s actually, when I started on YouTube was funny, is I did this little video of like, oh, here, let me show you a few of the different systems I use in my home school, and it exploded. So that video is one of my most popular videos. And I introduced people a little bit to my crate system there. And I had so many questions that I decided to create a homeschool organization course. So my homeschool organization course you can find that@homeschoolorganization.com so pretty easy to find. But I talk through not only how to plan and prep for your year, I also help people how to use different systems. And so one of my kind of featured systems is the crate system. And so we pretty much can train you how to put all of your kids, all of your curriculum, into one crate. So you have one crate that has all of the curriculum for the year in that crate divided by weeks. And that’s the key, is that I think it’s so natural for people to think because teacher planners are by day. So we talked about teacher planners earlier. Teacher planners are by day. And I really want you to get that until it is like, Monday. You’re not thinking about daily work. I want you to think by week. And so that’s what the crate system is designed to do. Now, what’s amazing with the crate system, because you planned out your entire home school by week. And again, you have one crate. You have all of your kids in that one crate. We color code our kids, and so they can pull it out, but it creates independence for my kids and also creates a bite sized look at the week. And so one of my friends who was using the system, she was like, Kristi, you’ve revolutionized how we homeschool because her daughter would feel so overwhelmed not knowing what was coming each day. And so she was able to stay. She’d pull out her crate or pull out her folder for the week, and she’s like, this is all I have to get done for the entire week. And so from there, there’s different systems I recommend. Sometimes I recommend some kids can handle just shoving your week’s worth in a clipboard and they are good to go. Like, they just know kind of naturally how to divide it up. That was my oldest son. He was fine. He could take the whole week, stick it in there, he’d do a few pages of math so he could handle that. Other kids need your help training them, how to put it into more of a daily binder or whatever system that you want to have with them. So that is kind of a little bit how the crate system works. And there’s all kinds of nuances that go along with it because it naturally happens. I always say it happens around week twelve. And every year I’m like, yes, week twelve. Week 13 is about the time that I’m like, I need to do adjusting here because we’ve slowed down, sped up. Like we’re pulling things from weeks ahead, we’re a couple of weeks behind and I’m shoving things into the next week. So it kind of just creates this one spot. Works great for military families, works great for missionaries. I’ve had a lot of families. I’ve had parents come up to me crying when they came and saw me one year to the next year. They’re like, I was ready to throw in the towel, was so overwhelmed. And so I really try to come at it practically because I knew what I needed as a homeschool mom, and I wanted to teach that to people. And so part of just the way that I show people again is to introduce all of these different systems and how they work together, how you can tweak it. And I have people that are so cute because they’re like, I love your creek system, but I kind of changed it a little and I’m like, awesome.

Yvette Hampton:

Do what works for you.

Kristi Clover:

And we change it up. Sometimes I’ll put my daughter’s readers in there and so the readers are actually in there. And I can’t do that when I have all five of my kids in one crate because it gets a little and sometimes I will have a second crate that’s okay, I have the space for it. So it depends on your space. It depends on all those things. And again, it’s always fluctuating. So my second oldest, so my second son, when he hit high school, it’s got one of those file boxes and that became his mini crate. And I created that a little differently. Because he needed to see not only his weekly work, but I needed a spot for him to be able to easily because he was working so independently. I needed a spot for him to move his work because we were realizing again, you just kind of have to figure out what’s working. But for him, it’s like, this is work that now mom needs to edit. So like any papers, math, anything that I needed to grade or edit, then we kind of developed a system where I’m pulling things and he’s pulling things. You just kind of work on things together. But really the key feature for the crate is that you have everything in one spot and you’re literally putting your school on autopilot. That is the key feature of the crate and how it works so beautifully. And it’s worked in times when I had to fly to Spain for an emergency situation with a family member who got hurt in Spain and I had to go out and be with them. And it helped when we had another emergency situation with another family. And it allowed me to be able to stay longer. It allowed me to be able to pick up and go. When I had to have surgery one time that was unexpected. My home school continued when I’ve had morning sickness. My kids could handle it when I was suddenly turning very green and couldn’t do it. And again, what I love about it is that again, homeschooling is life. I think that’s what people forget is that before I want, I’d rather my kids get B’s. Not that I grade, that’s a whole other topic about grading. But I’d rather my kids not be as academically strong, but be amazing men and women of God, amazing parents, amazing spouses. That is my goal. Not just to create these perfect kids that look great on the pedestal. I’m not about creating pedestal kids, no one is perfect. Your home school, let me just say this, your home school will not be perfect. Your home, your parenting, your kids, you. No one is perfect. And that should never be what we’re striving for. If you are keeping your eyes like your verse talked about, I’ve never heard that verse used, by the way, for homeschooling. And I love it. I have to sneak that and put that on my little verses.

Yvette Hampton:

You’re welcome. Ecclesiastes 1213.

Kristi Clover:

I know, and I’m blanking on the verse because we have another one that we use about how, like, a student will never be above his master. Is it Luke? It was Luke.

Yvette Hampton:

Yes, it’s Luke. 640.

Kristi Clover:

Yeah. So good because, yeah, when they’re fully trained, they should be like the teacher and I’m like, be like the master. And I’m like, I don’t want my kids to look like the public school, but I’ve totally lost my train of thought of where I was. But just to know that it’s not about creating perfect and I think in this day and age of pinterest and instagram and all these places, we want to put on the happy face, like, look at my happy family. You know what? That’s not what it’s all about. We are called to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. And that is honestly, it is a hard thing to teach. But I also know that there’s not really a lot of curriculum that’s going to completely teach that to my kids. What there is, is my life and that’s going to speak a lot louder than anything else. So when my kids see me have to take a break and go and bless a family member and love on a family member, that’s going to be what happens is that they’re seeing that and learning that in the moment.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, that’s real life. It’s real life learning. Because school isn’t just about the academics. The academics are important, but it’s not the most important part. We talk about that all the time on the podcast. But it’s true. It is a part of homeschooling, but it is not the only part and it is not the most important part about homeschooling. Okay, this crate system sounds amazing. Is this part of your because I’m looking on your website, the Ultimate Homeschool Organization course.

Kristi Clover:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

You talk about the crate system in.

Kristi Clover:

There and how to organize organization. Yes. Homeschoolorganization.com, if you go there or Kristiclover.com will also get you there, but yeah, either this will send you straight to me. So the crate system and all of my systems are all housed in there. And again, I was very deliberate about how I pieced everything together and then I have bonus videos to make sure I explain all the little nuances. Because it’s easy to talk with a crate system like I just did and to show you how to plan it out, but then getting it to work with other systems because you said you like checklists. And I help people create the simplest checklist you can ever create. In fact, you can put together a teacher planner. It’s included, I’m like for free within the course. It’s included in the course. And how to put together your own teacher planner. And it’s like the simplest thing ever. And it’s using the weekly system. And I do want to say one thing because we’re talking about home school organization and we’re talking about how we love checklists. And some curriculum comes with checklists and they’re usually pretty darn overwhelming. And I want to introduce one wonderful tip that everyone will love, and that is the power of the X. And that is you do not have to do everything in the curriculum. Checking it off feels great, but you are the teacher. And if your kids are getting bogged down and feel like there is too much, you know what, for history, you’re probably going to cycle it through three or four times. They’re going to pick up new nuggets here and there. They don’t need to read this extra book. They don’t need to do all this extra work. So sometimes you as a parent can just decide, we’re going to skip this part. Harder to do with phonics and math. Those you just take a week off and just pick up where you left off. But don’t be afraid to just cross it out and just be done. Yeah, we’re not doing that this year.

Yvette Hampton:

Oh, man, I love that. Okay, so we’ll put links to that in the show notes. And then you have your book home school basics. Again, we’ve done a whole podcast episode on that, so we’ll put a link to that. And that book is fantastic, you guys. I highly recommend it because she gives more detail on all of these things in the book as well. So if you’re a reader and you enjoy reading, then that is a book for you. Kristi, do you have any last bit of encouragement that you can leave with our.

Kristi Clover:

You know, this is what I like to compare homeschooling choosing to homeschool. So number one, you can homeschool your kids. You can do it. It’s going to probably be way easier than you think it is because you are probably putting a ton of extra pressure on yourself. But with the new Indiana Jones movie coming out soon, and I don’t know what point this is releasing or when you’re listening to this, but that’s all the buzz right now. There’s a new Indiana Jones movie coming out and I would say that the best representation of what it feels like to homeschool is like in the best Indiana Jones movie, which is number three, which is moment. And it’s like, sorry, Harrison Ford, but that was the best. There’s this moment where he has to save his dad’s life and he has to step out and he has to take the step of faith. And so you see him put his foot out and it looks like he’s going to fall. Like there’s this huge chasm between him and the other side. And that’s what it feels like. It feels like, I am going to take this step in homeschool and I’m going to fall to my death. It is sometimes so terrifying. Like, this is going to be a hot mess. And sometimes it literally takes day one. We are homeschooling. Everyone else is back in school and my kids are in my house. What am I doing? So what I love about that moment in the movie is his foot goes out. You still think he’s going to fall and die. And he steps forward and there’s solid ground. And then the camera pans out and you have this new angle and you see the whole time there was this very straight and it’s a straight and narrow path, but it’s a solid path that he can get across the other side. And that’s exactly what it’s like to homeschool, is sometimes you have to take that step of faith. Just like Peter getting out of the boat, just like Indiana Jones at that chasm, there is firm foundation and that’s Christ. And as long as you keep your eyes on Christ, you will get through your homeschool season and you will never, ever regret it. Every hard day, every tear, blood, sweat, tears. Like whatever it is, there’s usually not blood involved. Unless you’re like me and you. Yeah, I’m always cutting myself. I’m like my. Kids are like, mom usually bruises. I’m like, I don’t. But it’s so worth it. And you just have to give yourself grace along the way, and that’s the most important thing. It’s not going to be perfect. So take away your perfect little like, there’s no trophy at the end of the day, but there is a crown of glory that you’re going to at the end of the day for working. And this is, I truly believe, a calling. As a mother, a calling as a father. We are called to finish strong. And it is hard, it’s really hard to parent your child. You are raising a human being, and it’s a mighty calling, but you can do it. And the Lord will see you through it. And he will bring people along your path, too, to encourage you. Don’t try to do it alone.

Unlocking the Power of Homeschooling: Research Insights from Dr. Brian Ray

“I don’t think there’s any way for anybody to make an argument that institutionalizing children in these places we call school, where most of us went, is improving their psychological health.” – Dr. Brian Ray

In a world where traditional schooling can sometimes leave children feeling lost in the crowd, many parents are turning to an alternative education option that provides a personalized and values-driven learning experience for their children – the homeschool revolution! In a recent interview on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, premier homeschooling researcher, and founder of the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI.org), Dr. Brian Ray shared his groundbreaking research and powerful insights on the effectiveness and benefits of homeschooling.

The Blessing of Homeschooling:

According to Dr. Brian Ray, children are a blessing from God, and being actively involved in their education is a profound privilege. Drawing from Biblical principles, Dr. Ray notes, “The Bible is sufficient, and it gives us everything we need to know about how to live and educate our children.” He challenges the notion that the Bible does not address education, pointing out that it contains abundant wisdom on raising and educating children.

“The Bible is sufficient; it has everything we need to know about how to live and how to educate and disciple our children.”

Parent-Directed Home-Based Education Discipleship:

Dr. Ray advocates for “parent-directed, home-based education discipleship,” which he asserts is distinct from traditional homeschooling. This type of education places parents at the forefront, recognizing their duty and responsibility as the primary educators of their children, as outlined in the Bible. Dr. Ray believes that this model empowers parents to create a customized curriculum that aligns with their family’s values, ensuring an education that is truly comprehensive and tailored to meet the needs of each child.

In addition to his research career, as a former public school teacher-turned-homeschool-dad himself, Dr. Ray got to apply the principles he had learned and see the effects of homeschooling in his own family.

“Whether it was easier or harder, whatever, whether children were fussing with us or happy with us as parents, it was the philosophy and the theology and the desire to be together as a family that really drove us.”

Insights from Research:

Dr. Ray’s extensive research has consistently demonstrated the merits of homeschooling. His doctoral dissertation focused on examining the academic achievements of homeschool children in comparison to their public and private school counterparts. The study showcased the efficacy of parent-directed education. Dr. Ray explains, “Homeschooling aligns more with effective teaching and learning conditions, such as smaller groups, increased conversation with adults, and customized curriculum,” which all lead to positive outcomes for students.

One significant finding is that homeschool children exhibit greater engagement and interest in subjects like science. Dr. Ray shares, “The study showed that homeschool children were more engaged and interested in science than their counterparts in institutional schools.” This finding highlights the ability of homeschooling to cultivate a love for learning and curiosity in children, allowing them to explore subjects at their own pace and in a hands-on manner.

Addressing Misconceptions:

Dr. Ray addresses common misconceptions surrounding homeschooling, particularly concerns about child abuse and neglect. Although acknowledging heartbreaking cases within homeschooling families, he emphasizes that abuse and neglect occur in institutional schools as well. Dr. Ray explains that when specific research has compared child abuse and neglect rates between institutionally schooled children and homeschool children the results show much lower rates of abuse among homeschool families.

Watch the video.

He argues that homeschooling, when executed correctly, aligns more effectively with research on effective teaching and learning. Smaller class sizes, increased interaction with adults, personalized curriculum, and the absence of negative peer pressure contribute to a positive learning environment. Dr. Ray wonders, “If we know all this about effective teaching and learning, why would we expect homeschool kids not to perform better on average?”

“On average, homeschoolers perform well academically. They outperform the national average by 15 to 25 percentile points.”

The Impact of Homeschooling:

Dr. Ray’s research has not only debunked negative claims about homeschooling but also demonstrated the extensive outcomes. Quantitative data from adult participants raised in homeschooling families revealed that, in spite of factors such as parent education level and income, homeschooled students outperform their public schooled peers in nearly every measure.

According to Dr. Ray, studies indicate that home-educated individuals generally experience higher levels of achievement, exhibit fewer behavioral problems, and demonstrate lower rates of addiction and depression. While he acknowledges that not all home-educated individuals achieve success and happiness, the overall benefits of homeschooling as a collective group are significant.

Watch or listen here.

Beyond Academics:

Dr. Ray advocates for a holistic approach to education that goes beyond academic achievements. He urges parents to prioritize the well-being of their children by limiting screen time, engaging in outdoor activities, and fostering open communication. He highlights the detrimental impact of excessive screen time on mental health and urges parents to reclaim their role as primary influencers in their children’s lives.

Conclusion:

Dr. Brian Ray’s extensive research and insights shed light on the power of homeschooling as a viable and impactful educational option. By placing parents at the core of their children’s education and providing a Bible-centered, personalized, values-driven approach, homeschooling offers numerous advantages for academic achievement and overall well-being.

As the acceptance and celebration of homeschooling continue to grow, parents are becoming increasingly empowered to provide their children with an education that aligns with their family’s beliefs and values and can be assured that their children will not suffer as a result of “missing out” on traditional schooling. Additionally, Dr. Ray’s research not only indicates positive outcomes for individual students, but also demonstrates the homeschooling movement’s abilty to positively impact communities and nations.

To delve deeper into Dr. Brian Ray’s research and gain a comprehensive understanding of the benefits of homeschooling, Listen to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast or subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch the full interview.

Recommended Resources:

The Gen2 Survey, by NHERI (National Home Education Research Institute) – This study examines adults who attended church growing up and seeks to understand the key influences which either encouraged or deterred them from believing and practicing the faith of their parents.

Answers for Homeschooling: Top 25 Questions Critics Ask, by Israel Wayne

Education: Does God Have an Opinion?, by Israel Wayne

Israel Wayne, Christian Education: A Manifesto 

Education: The Key to Saving Our Nation – Alex Newman on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Getting Started in Homeschooling – Israel Wayne on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast 

Discussion Questions:

1. How does Dr. Brian Ray’s research challenge the perception that homeschooling is inferior to traditional schooling?

2. What are some key factors that contribute to the academic success of homeschooled children, according to Dr. Ray’s research?

3. How does Dr. Ray address concerns about child abuse and neglect in homeschooling families, and what data does he present to support his arguments?

4. How does Dr. Ray’s personal background and experiences influence his perspective on homeschooling?

5. What are some potential drawbacks or challenges of homeschooling that Dr. Ray acknowledges, and how does he address them?

6. How has the acceptance and perception of homeschooling changed over the years, according to Dr. Ray?

7. How does homeschooling impact the overall well-being and mental health of children, as discussed by Dr. Ray?

8. How does Dr. Ray argue that homeschooling can contribute to the improvement of local communities and nations?

9. What are some practical strategies and suggestions for parents to prioritize their children’s well-being in the midst of societal and technological challenges, according to Dr. Ray?

10. In your opinion, based on the information presented by Dr. Ray, what are the major advantages and disadvantages of homeschooling compared to traditional schooling?

Full Transcript:

Yvette Hampton:

Hey, everyone, this is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad that you are with me this week. I have a guest on this week that is truly an honor to have him with us. I cannot believe, actually, that it’s taken this long to have Dr. Brian Ray with us. We met years ago at a it was an HSLDA conference. And I’ve always been so just impressed with his work. I feel like I should have a stronger word than impressed, but that’s the word that comes to me right now. He has done so many things for the homeschool community, and if you are not yet familiar with him, you are going to be so encouraged this week. I know that many of you have probably heard him speak at homeschool conventions in the past, and he’s been in the homeschool world for a long, long time. And so I’m so grateful to have him on with us today. So we’re going to talk a lot about just the history of homeschooling and some research on what’s going on with homeschooling, what’s happened in the past, what the future might look like for homeschooling. We’re going to talk just a lot about his study of the homeschool world. Well, Dr. Brian Ray. Welcome to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I am so glad to have you with us. Introduce yourself to our audience. And when I say, like, you know, just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you and your family do. And I would really love for you to give a pretty good overview of NHERI, which is your organization, which we’ll talk about, but also your credentials, your qualifications, because that really matters in our talk this week and the things that we’re going to be discussing.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yep. Thank you so much, Yvette, for having me here. It’s great. Thank you for your work. I was just telling Yvette before we started talking how my wife said this morning, I’m so happy about all these young people who are doing the things we don’t even know about in the homeschool movement. And years ago, I don’t know, maybe ten years ago, we started hearing older people. Like I am saying, woe is us, woe is me. That we’re all the young people, the pioneers like we are. Well, you know what? God has raised you up. Here you are. He always has whomever he needs to do the things right. I mean, he’s just done it. And so I’m very thankful. I’m very thankful that there are younger folks who are so excited about God’s principles and raising children. But what happened was, okay, so I was institutionalized a vet, right? So I was raised in a Roman Catholic environment. Roman Catholic. Went to Roman Catholic schools. But from a very young age, god designs people a certain way. And I think a lot of us know early on what it might be. I’ve always loved animals I’ve always just wanted to watch them and play with them and study them and all those things. So I went after high school, went on to get a bachelor’s degree, bachelor of Science in Biology from the University of Puget Sound. From there, I went off and traveled all over the United States with my brother before many people watching this were even born. I’m sure this is back during the bicentennial of America, United States of America 1976. Traveled all over the US. For 100 days and 15,000 miles, came back and I taught, ended up teaching. I got a carpentry job, and then I ended up teaching at an outdoor school, 6th grade, public school students. I’ve always liked being around children and teaching children. Even in high school, I went down to a local grade school and tutored children in that elementary school. So that was just something I did there. And from there then I went on and got a Master of science degree in zoology at Ohio University. And therefore my research. I studied pack rats neatoma Florida. So I was really into mammology and learned all the mammals of North America and all that kind of thing. Now I finished that and want to do I want to be in a lab all my life, or would I like to maybe get out a little more and be with people or something? So from there now, in all that, Betsy and I got married in graduate school. Graduate school is when I got saved, when the Lord got me and brought me into his kingdom. And right after that, Betsy and I got married, came back to Oregon, and she was finishing a degree in teaching. And I decided, hey, why not? So I got a teaching degree in Oregon. So I taught for a few years, middle school and high school. So now you can see kind of the science and then the education formally, right? So I did that. And after three years of that, I got kind of I’m tired of know, teaching the same class over and over and over, and I need a challenge. I need a real challenge. So I decided to go and work on a PhD in science education at Oregon State University. So while there, I was teaching in biology, and I became a teaching assistant for the dean of education and all kinds of things, all kinds of experiences while there, Yvette, we were starting to have babies. And while we were there, I was very interested in alternatives. And Betsy and I have always kind of been interested in alternatives. Maybe you could say we are right wing Christian hippies. So we were interested in organic farming, and we were interested in drip irrigation on gardens. And while at Oregon State, I met some people who wanted somebody to teach their children part time. It turns out they were basically kind of left wing hippie homeschoolers, but nobody called it that yet. And from there I started looking into homeschooling and almost no research was done. So I pulled together a paper all about homeschooling and research on homeschooling and presented it as actually it was an exam for my doctoral studies. It was not my dissertation. And all of a sudden after I wrote that paper, I was an expert on homeschooling. So one way to be an expert is do something almost nobody else is doing and then you’re an expert. That’s basically what happened. During all of that, Betsy and I heard about homeschooling and I started studying homeschooling and one thing led to another. I did home research on homeschooling and bingo, as soon as I got my PhD, the NBC Today show called me and flew me from Oregon to New York City, picked me up in a limousine and put me on the NBC Today show with the president of the National Education Association, the big teachers union. That was amazing. I’d never done anything like that in my life. That was my introduction to the media and interviews with the media. Just two years after that, some other guys and I started the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute. NHERI. Nheri.org. So that’s kind of the preliminary before what happened, how we got there, god just led me from one thing to another. I went off to teach at Seattle Pacific well, I’ll just say a university in Seattle, and then started the Research Institute during that. And I went and taught at another college and kept the research institute going and about 25 years ago full time with the Research Institute.

Yvette Hampton:

That is an incredible story that you talked about before. And I don’t know that you would call it a story, but just your qualifications and what you did before even getting into the world of homeschooling. You are well educated. And the reason I wanted you to share all of that stuff is because I didn’t want people we’re going to talk a lot this week about your study of homeschooling. And I don’t want people to think that you’re just some guy off the street who maybe talked to ten different people. And now all of a sudden, you’re the expert on homeschooling. Your bio says that you are a leading international expert in research on homeschooling. And I would argue that you are the leading international expert in research on homeschooling. I don’t know anyone else who has done as much research as you in the past years. And we’re not just talking about the past ten years. We’re talking about you said, I think 33 years ago that you started researching homeschooling, is that right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I said that the institute was started 33 years ago, but I actually started studying homeschooling more like 39 years ago. So before I left out a step event you got it right, though about the research. I left out that in 1985 I started the journal Home School Researcher. And keep in mind it was three words, home school research. So that tells you something that was before it evolved in America to a one word. We used to have discussions and debates about whether it should be one word or two.

Yvette Hampton:

Well, we’ve seen that debate as well, even as recently as when we chose the name for the movie schoolhouse Rocked the Homeschool Revolution. I remember us talking about that. Like, dude, we put home school or homeschool and we did our own little bit of research and we thought, okay, most people are saying it as one word, and so we’re going to just go with homeschooling instead of homeschooling. Yes, you have been in this world for such a long time, and you have really put your whole, I would say most of your adult life’s work into researching homeschooling and not just the history of it. I mean, you talk about the history of it, but really you have a really deep understanding. And so talk for a little bit about your research that you’ve done. And I would love for you to take us not through every step, but kind of what it was like from the beginning, 39 years ago when you started researching it. And I know this is a big question, this could take a long time. We have about, what, 1012 minutes here. So we can continue this on, if we need to on Wednesday. But talk about your research on homeschooling and where you’ve seen it go.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Okay. Way back in that time machine around 1989 ish, I can’t say the exact date, but I was already into it. I was already into it. In fact, I wanted to do a study on homeschooling for my doctoral dissertation. But it’s a story we won’t get into, and I can never prove it. But they did not want me studying and having a dissertation coming out of Oregon State University on homeschooling. So I did my work just on public school kids, but on my own. On the side, I was collecting data on private school children and homeschool children with the same questions as my doctoral dissertation. So as soon as they handed me the dissertation, boom, I went out and started publishing on homeschooling. And it was kind of an off thing that almost nobody would look into. It was called the Theory of Reason to Action, and it was comparing home school, public school, and private school students in terms of their interest in doing science, in their interest in doing studying science, and their interest in doing laboratory science, and then what would motivate them. And as it turns out, and this is going to start to sound like a broken record, the homeschool children were more engaged and more interested in science than most of the others. I mean, that’s what I found. That was way back in around, like I said, 1988. Now, around that same time, just after that, Mike Farris, who was one of the founders of the home school legal defense association was making a speech somewhere or writing an article or something. He said, you know what we’re not we need in the home school movement? We need parents with their children to go down to their state legislatures and visit with legislators and so that they can see their children, they’re real, they’re not weirdos, all that kind of stuff. And he said, number two, we need good, solid, sound, empirical research evidence. Well, HSLDA was the main sponsor of one of my first big studies, and it was a nationwide study of homeschooling. And we got into all kinds of things like parents demographics, their income level, their ethnicity, education level, children reasons for homeschooling, and standardized academic achievement tests. Though even though those test scores are not the most important thing in the world. And I know you know that, Yvette it is something that the public and the courts and the legislatures want to know about, right? A lot of parents want to know too. Can my child I’m not a government certified teacher, I don’t even have a college degree can my children possibly learn from me to do basic math and reading and writing? So it was a big study. It was a first of its kind, and it got a lot of publicity. We went into the news, we made booklets, we did all those kinds of things. And we found out that on average, homeschool children do very well academically. We mailed out thousands and thousands of paper envelopes with stuffed with a family survey, and then probably three copies of each child’s survey with self addressed stamped envelopes. And then those got mailed in from all over the country to our little place in Seattle, Washington. We lived up there for three years, and then we had to open all those and then we had to hand enter all of that into probably an excel oh my goodness spreadsheet. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hand entries. That’s how it happened.

Yvette Hampton:

I can’t even imagine because you look at how easy it is. I mean, now you just can create a simple forum on Google, shoot it out, know thousands of people, and have answers within hours if you need them. I mean, it’s just amazing to see how technology has really helped in that way. I’m assuming this was back and I don’t remember when the date was, but this is probably around the same time that Dr. Dobson did his famous interview with Dr. Ray Moore, right where they started talking about homeschooling.

Dr. Brian Ray:

I would say that was more like probably closer to 1985. Ish around in there okay, maybe. Okay, yeah, close. So people started hearing about homeschooling from different angles, just alternative education discussions, ministries like focus on the Family, all that was bubbling and simmering and coming about at the same time. I met people who had never heard of homeschooling, and they started homeschooling they hadn’t heard about it on a radio nowhere. And they just said, God wanted us to do this. He did not want us to put them, especially in public schools. I met people all over the country who were doing that. Yes, it was around that time.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah. That’s incredible. I know that there have been so many hands who God has used to bring homeschooling to where it is today. And we take it for granted. We forget about those homeschool pioneers like yourself who really did pave the way before us so that we have our homeschool freedoms and so that we have what we need to homeschool successfully so that we can have those. Test scores so that we can have all of the things that we can take to our legislators and say, hey, look, this is what’s going on with us. Oftentimes you will hear of kids who were homeschooled back in the even I would say that the early two thousand s. And they’ll say, oh, my mom didn’t do a good job of homeschooling. I didn’t have a good education. I was deprived of my education. And so people will look at those kids and they will say, oh well, look at those homeschoolers, none of them are educated. Well, look at the public schoolers, many of them aren’t educated. Look at the private schoolers, many of them aren’t educated either. Sometimes I think it really just depends on the parents and on the child. And so I love your research because you really do show and prove that home education really does work in most cases. Not in all cases, but in most cases academically, it really does work for students. And so I want to kind of hang on that right now and I want to pull that into Wednesday. I want to kind of kick off Wednesday’s episode with that and talk about why Homeschooling does work according to the research that you’ve done. Homeschooled kids, like we talked about on Monday, across the board, overall, homeschool kids do really well. So talk about what your research really has taught you, what it tells us as the world of homeschooling.

Dr. Brian Ray:

The first thing that happened in my research and I want to mention and I mentioned this event earlier that I’m going to talk a lot about my research, but there are a lot of other people studying homeschooling now. There was a time when there were very few of us and I knew all their names, basically. But now there are dozens, if not hundreds of people around the world studying homeschooling. So in the early days of the modern homeschool movement, put that in context because homeschooling is thousands of years old, people just wanted to know, well, who are they? What do they quote look like? What are their demographics? We were just asking questions like, well, how old are you parent? How many children do you have? What’s your ethnicity background? What’s your education level? What’s your family income, just all those basic statistics. Everybody kind of wants to know about a group of people so we can generalize and so we can pigeonhole you, so we can have a measure of central tendency. So that was the first phase of research. And way back in 25, 30 years ago, it looked pretty like in America, I’m talking about United States, okay? It looked pretty much, I call it overall middle classy, overall disproportionately, white, Anglo, overall, maybe just a little bit more education level the parents than the general public. Kind of like that. Now, remember, whenever we say generalizations, there’s always a variety. Because to get an average, you have to have one end and the other end. So people just always have to remember that. Okay, way back then, also, we wanted to know, well, all right, this is what they kind of quote, look like. But how is it possible that people who are not government certified teachers could possibly teach their children anything like academics? So we wanted to ask that question, how are they doing academically? And even though we can have all kinds of debates about achievement tests, let’s face it, people still use achievement tests in the public schools, in the private schools. And in some states, it’s actually by law, you’re supposed to do that. So we started looking at academic achievement test scores. And right from the very get go, we were finding that homeschool children on average were 15 to 25 percentile percentile points above the public school average, which is 50. And if you’re not familiar with test scores, go study it. But 50th percentile is the average. That doesn’t mean 50% correct on a test. It just means if you’re at the 50th, you did better than 50% of the kids and you did worse than 50% of the kids, roughly.

Yvette Hampton:

Right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

So that’s what we found. And others started finding the same thing. Now, as the research world kind of progressed, we wanted to have more sophisticated studies. But also then people asked, as you know, Yvette, everybody kind of knows the s question. What about socialization? Socialization? Everybody knows it. It’s a big inside joke in the home school world. What about that? Okay, for the last, whatever, 100. Now, 20 years, most kids have been institutionalized to be with same age peers, plus or minus eleven months their age. So what’s going to happen to them if they’re not doing that all day? So a lot of researchers, I did much less of that kind of research. So I might have asked quantitative things like, what are the activities your children are involved in? How many per week, whatever. I asked kind of quantitative approaches to that.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Others did other research like, well, what about self concepts, self esteem? What about actual behaviors acting out too aggressively or not assertively enough? And all these different studies. Fascinating studies. Fascinating studies. But when I did a review of research a few years back, 87% of the studies, peer reviewed studies, found that home school students were better in terms of social and emotional development than their institutional school peers. And if we have time, maybe you could ask me why. Okay, if we get to that, I.

Yvette Hampton:

Do want to know why. But my question also is, as you’re doing this research, obviously you’re researching homeschool families. Are you also at the same time researching public school, private school families with the exact same questions?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Okay, so the way most of this research works is if you do a standardized achievement test and you put that in your studies, already, you have the norm for public school students because that is the norm for that test. So the average is 50. So then you would just mainly collect data on home school kids. Now, a few researchers, this takes more time, and it usually takes more money if you could get fresh, brand new test data scores from both home school and institutional school at the same time. A few studies have done that, but that’s a lot more intensive. And like I said, it takes money to spend all the time getting all that together. Let’s say there’s an inventory, or most people call them a test. All right, let’s just call it a test. A test that deals with self concept, right? Well, already researchers have developed these tests, and they do what’s called studies of validity and reliability on these tests. So they exist out there. And already, mainly it’s being used on public school children. So you have the scores and the norming group for those children. So now you pull in, let’s say it’s been normed for nine to twelve year olds. So now some researcher goes and gets a bunch of nine to twelve year old homeschool kids and gives them the same inventory and compares them to that norm group. That’s one way. And the other way, just like an achievement, you could have live, brand new, fresh subjects in the study. It could be a group of 25 homeschool children and 25 public school children and watch them, see how they interact, behave, play, don’t play, fight, all those things. It’s kind of fun to be research because you get to do all of that. So it’s both preset scores from tests that have been developed already, and sometimes it’s fresh, brand new data comparing the two groups live on the spot.

Yvette Hampton:

Well, that’s really cool. So sometimes it’s not just a check a box kind of survey. You actually get to observe people in real life and how they’re responding to other people, how they’re responding to their peers, and maybe to their parents and to their teachers if they’re in school. Things like that.

Dr. Brian Ray:

One that I got to do was kind of fun. The Montana homeschool. So I’ve done several big nationwide studies, but I’ve done several state specific studies, and some homeschool leaders in Montana are very forward thinking. Many years ago, they asked me to do this study where I actually brought in because some people would say, well, these homeschool kids do well just because only the smart, brilliant parents or the parents who cheat would be in your study. So we got a group of students that were just sort of like a convenient sample, and then we had another group, and they were tested under a watchful eye, making sure nobody was doing anything unseemly or cheating and all that kind of stuff. And we found out they scored almost identically to one another. So that was kind of fun to have. A new group of data, new group of students, a new group of data. So studies come in all shapes and forms and sizes and approaches.

Yvette Hampton:

In your research, you have found that overall, homeschool kids do really well, and oftentimes they do better than their peers in public school or private school. Why do you think that is?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I think it’s one of the most fascinating things and it’s the hardest thing to answer in research. We could say what? We can have descriptive statistics. The question is why? Why does it come out that way? Because when you look back 35, 40 years ago, there were a lot of negative people toward homeschooling, a lot of skeptics.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

I mean, even some people start homeschooling were skeptical of themselves. But I kind of look at it this way. Many years ago, I started going into the body of research on what makes for effective teaching and learning in institutional schools. Okay? So it’s not necessarily going to be the same, but that’s all we had, right? For a long time, we mainly had institutional schools in America and especially during the era of research. And I just want to just say leave out the H word, leave out homeschooling and just say, ask any public school teacher, private school teacher, government certified teacher, principal of a school, superintendent of a school district, whatever. Just start asking a bunch of questions. When do children usually learn more? When they’re in a group of 28 or when they’re in a group of three or four or five. When do children usually learn more? When they have more turns of conversation between adult and student or less. They all know the answer. When do children usually learn more? When they can master a subject or a skill? Before they move on? Or when they have to move on. Just because it’s a new day or a new semester. It doesn’t matter whether they learned it or not. When do children usually learn more? When there are fewer distractions or more distractions in their environment. We all know the answer. When do children usually learn more? When the curriculum or the pedagogical approach is customized for that child’s learning style, strengths, weaknesses, dreams and desires or not customized? We all know the answer. When do children learn more? When they’re being bullied or they’re not being bullied. We all know the answer. When do children learn more? When they’re being psychologically stressed out by teachers in a school system or not? And we all know the answer. So when do children learn more? When they’re being pressured to get into drugs and alcohol or not? When do children usually learn more? When they’re being pressured to get into premarital sex or not? We all know the answer. So you just start going down through this whole list of questions and say, well, which side of those answers does institute schooling lie on more? And which one does parent led home based education lie on more? And systemically by its very nature, parent directed home based education fits the bill more. So really, Yvette, the question is, why would homeschool children not do better?

Yvette Hampton:

Right? That’s fantastic. And I would know as the big, pretty bow on the end of that, who learns more? The kid whose parent loves them more than anyone else and knows them better than anyone else? Yes. There are some excellent teachers out there. There really are. We have a lot of friends who are teachers. We have a lot of friends who are administrators, and they have such a heart for the children that are in their classrooms, but they cannot it’s impossible for them to love your child the way that you love them and to cater to their needs the way that you do as their parent. I’m glad you brought that up.

Dr. Brian Ray:

The list I went through is not an attack on certified teachers.

Yvette Hampton:

Sure.

Dr. Brian Ray:

It just shows us that no matter how hard we try in institutional schools, we cannot replicate what I just went through. I mean, I’ve been a classroom teacher. You can’t do it. You just can’t do it. It’s impossible. And if you tried to make the classrooms that small, then they’d have to raise your property taxes fivefold.

Yvette Hampton:

So let’s park there as a parent for a minute, because you were a homeschool parent, right? You have eight kids, is that correct?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes.

Yvette Hampton:

You homeschooled your eight children. What was it that kept you homeschooling? Was it all of your research? What kept you and Betsy in this world of home education? And talk a little bit about your experience as a homeschool dad, especially back in the day when it know, as mainstream as it is now?

Dr. Brian Ray:

There were, I would say, a few core things to answer your question. First, no, it was not my mean, Yvette, I’ve told so many people from the speaker’s podium over and over and over and over. High test scores are not the main reason for homeschooling. It’s not. I mean, I’m a Christian, so what’s driven Betsy and me has been theology and philosophy, really? And actually just enjoying our yeah, we want to be with our children. Okay. That’s the way it’s supposed to be, right?

Yvette Hampton:

That’s why you had them.

Dr. Brian Ray:

They’re a blessing from God. They’re a blessing to be. Around. I don’t mean they’re always wonderful to be around, I just mean it’s a blessing to be with our children. Yeah, it’s good to be with them. So when I first got saved, when God brought me into his kingdom, I knew immediately that the Bible, the Word of God, is what is sufficient for everything we need to know and how to live and how to enjoy God and let Him change us and sanctify us. I knew that. So if you’re a Christian, there’s no choice. You must be a scripturalist. You have to go to God’s word to answer questions about everything in life. And so way back, I asked myself, what does the Word of God say about the education of children? And education is a very holistic, broad term that has to do with things like academics, reading, writing, arithmetic, math, whatever. And it has to do with values, morals, ways of thinking, how to do things, how to treat your neighbor. All of that is a part of education. And I will challenge any Christian who’s thinking, I don’t want to home school or I shouldn’t have to homeschool, or there’s nothing in the Bible about education. There’s a lot in the Bible about education all through the Proverbs, in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy, in the Psalms, in the New Testament. There’s a lot about the education of children. And over and over and over again I ask people, who does God say, has the let’s quit using the word right? Who has the duty and the responsibility responsibility to be the main educators of children? And I present this, and you’re going to have to say it’s the parents. And then you say in the Bible, does God give you the choice to just delegate it to anybody you want? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So whether it was easier or harder, whatever, whether children were fussing with us or happy with us as parents, it was the philosophy and the theology and the desire to be together as a family that really drove us. And I like to call it parent directed home based education. Discipleship. Now, that’s just a clunky mouthful, but homeschooling, the word homeschooling does not capture it at all because it’s not institutional school at home.

Yvette Hampton:

Right? It’s not called home academics.

Dr. Brian Ray:

No.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, no, you’re right. One of my favorite lines in the movie is where Heidi says where she got to the point where she realized that homeschooling was discipleship. And I think that’s exactly what you’re talking about. And so many parents, and I’ve talked to many of them parents who will say, I don’t think I’m called to homeschool. And we’ll say, you are called to homeschool if you love and I don’t say that if you love Jesus and you don’t homeschool, clearly you’re not a Christian. I don’t mean it like that. I’m just saying if you are a professing Christian and you are committed to discipling the hearts of your children, it’s impossible to do that all of the time when they’re away from you, most of the time. And God really does give us the responsibility, like you said, and the duty to home educate, to disciple our kids, to teach them His Word day in and day out, when they walk, when they sit, when they wake up. Psalm One says to not walk in the counsel of the wicked. Yes, it is so important.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah, there’s a lot on this event. I used to teach a philosophy of education course at a Christian college for five years. And every year I got two sections of people who are planning to be teachers. So I got to kind of teach and indoctrinate ten groups of teachers. And when we would go through the Bible on education, on children, many, many of them, and they were raised in mostly Christian homes, and a lot of them went to Christian schools and we would just be reading the Bible and studying. And I would not mention homeschooling, but most of them by the end of it said, you’re just talking about homeschooling. I said, I never used the word. You just came to that conclusion on your own because you’re studying the word of God. And I’d like to challenge people gently but firmly. Parents who have, whether their oldest child is three years old or their oldest child is twelve year olds, they might say something like, well, I just don’t know. Why would home school I want to flip the question around. Why would you send your child away from home, away from you to be taught, trained and indoctrinated in a system that is not designed and never was designed to lift up the name of the King of the universe, Jesus Christ, and has never been and never will be designed to preach the gospel to your child? Why would you send your child away to know that’s really the question. And right now in that question, I’m leaving out Christian schools for now, because that’s a little more complicated conversation. But that’s the real question for parents who profess Christ, what does God say in the Bible? Not what does somebody else say? And why would you send your child away to be taught, trained and indoctrinated by mainly people who hate Jesus?

Yvette Hampton:

And we talked about why you and your wife Betsy chose to homeschool. And then we talked a little bit about the philosophy of home education. That’s kind of what we ended on yesterday, on Wednesday. Do you have any more to add to the philosophy of homeschool?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes, I said something at the end that I wanted to flip the question around for parents, especially those who profess to be Christians, when they say, well, I’m not sure I should homeschool, or why would I home school? And I asked them, let’s flip it around and say, why would you send your child away from you and away from home for 6 hours per day, maybe more on a bus ride and all that to be taught, trained and indoctrinated by people who do not like the gospel. They do not like the good news of Jesus Christ. I even said something like hate Jesus. Well, remember Jesus said you’re either with me or you’re against me. Right? So I’m not making up stuff here. But I also wanted to say that it’s important for everybody I don’t care whether right now listening is a new Ager or a secular humanist or a pagan, or a Wiccan, or a Christian or a Muslim or a Mormon or a Jew, it doesn’t matter. All education, whether it’s being done at a thing we call public school or at a thing we call private school or by homeschooling, is the teaching, training and indoctrination of children. That is the truth. And I know it really bothers people when I use the word indoctrination, but all that means go look it up. There are different definitions of indoctrination. I’m not talking about under a bright white light. You haven’t been able to eat for 39 hours and they’re keeping 120 degrees in your cell, your isolation. So that’s not what there’s. Indoctrination just means putting in doctrine, putting in propositions, putting in concepts, putting in principles into a child’s heart and mind. We all know that’s what’s being done in private schools. We all know that’s what’s being done in public schools. We all know that’s what’s being done in homeschooling. So if you’re a professing Christian, you are supposed to be doing that the biblical worldview with your children. And regardless of whether you’re a Christian, I’m glad that you’re considering homeschooling. Because you see, parent directed home based education is a design by God. It’s not something that people in the last 35 years in America made up. It’s not just this fabricated idea. And actually a parent directed home based education improves our local communities. It doesn’t matter what your worldview is, it improves our nations all over the country. So I wanted to say that about it, that it is a good thing for communities and societies regardless of the test scores. I’m glad what you said about the test scores. Yvette, I mean, on average, statistically speaking, let’s say your child is below average on a test, he or she would do even worse probably if in public school. So just keep that in mind, right?

Yvette Hampton:

So you’re talking about indoctrination and you gave a fantastic definition of it. I want to actually read out of Webster’s Dictionary the definition of indoctrination is this it’s teaching a doctrine, principle or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view. And so you hit it right on the nail. I mean, that’s exactly what our kids are being indoctrinated by somebody. It doesn’t matter whether they’re being indoctrinated by the public school, private school, social media, or their parents. Every child is being indoctrinated somewhere by someone. And so as their parents. We have to take that role on and say, okay, this is where indoctrination is going to happen in our kids lives. It’s going to happen in our home under the umbrella of God’s Word, and we are going to indoctrinate our kids, and really, we’re just training them up right as God has called us to do so. And with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can do this. I know it’s a scary thing. It’s scary for me. It’s scary for pretty much every homeschool mom I’ve ever met. But by God’s grace, we can continue doing this. All right, so we’ve talked about, again, the academic achievement. Let’s talk you touched just a little bit on this, but I want to dig into this a little more about the social and emotional development of homeschool kids. What have you found with your research on that?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Something you just said made me I was ready. You gave me a segue of it. You said it can be scary for parents to think about doing this homeschooling thing. I don’t think you meant this, but it could imply in people’s head, I’m doing it all alone. No, you’re not. You’re not doing it all alone. If you’re a human being, you are a social creature, right? And if you are a Christian, you’re engaged in what we call a local church. And when you home school and you don’t quit homeschooling, that means you never send them away to be indoctrinated by somebody else, or you decide to stop them being indoctrinated by somebody else, and you bring them back home. You have all kinds of possibilities. You have what everybody knows now we call home school co ops. And I don’t even know if people know what that means. Cooperative. That’s what it means. It’s a cooperative. So you do things together. You have colleagues, you collaborate, you have fun know, you help each other, cry on each other’s shoulders. You give each other ideas. You maybe say, I hate math, and I don’t even want to learn math, so I’m going to have Susie Q in my co op. She’s going to teach the math class in our group, and then you have fun doing it together. So that is my segue to the research on homeschooling. The implication by the negative critics and the naysayers from 39 years ago till now is homeschool people hide in Sellers in northern Idaho, and they never interact with anybody. It is so absolutely false. It’s a tiny, tiny minority of homeschoolers who might do something like that. I’m not saying there are none, but it’s a tiny minority. And even then, hey, look it go back 180 years in American history. There were people who lived basically alone, a mom and a dad and maybe 23456 children, and they maybe got look.

Yvette Hampton:

At the Ingalls family.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah. And they maybe got to see somebody once a week or once a month or whatever. They were law abiding. Citizens. They learned how to read. They knew how to work hard. They knew how to be more. What more do you want? I mean, what more do we get than that? Or do we even get that from half the graduates of public schools? Maybe not. Okay, so we have the fact that homeschooling interact with other people, and they have a mom and a dad. And I think a really key important thing for people to keep in mind here is that most of the time when children go to institutional schooling, they model much of the time after peers. So seven year olds are looking at seven year olds as their models. Twelve year olds are looking at twelve year olds as their models. But what would we all say? Do you want your child to model after a mature, kind, hardworking adult or after a seven year old? You want them to model after the adult. So we’re all kind of messed up in our heads about what this whole peer interaction thing is about. There’s no research. I’ve looked and looked and looked and looked. There’s no research anywhere that shows children need to be with 25 other kids plus or minus eleven months their age turn out to be how to read, knowing how to read, knowing how to do basic math, knowing how to be law abiding, knowing how to keep the golden rule. There’s no research like that. And now we have the opposite. We have almost 40 years of research saying that when you look at homeschool kids, they’re doing better in terms of social and emotional development. They model after adults. They know how to interact with adults, they know how to interact with babies. They’re respectful, they’re kind. I’m not saying they’re all perfect. Nobody’s saying that. But on average, they’re doing better.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, I agree. And I see that in a lot of ways. I’m going to kind of twist this question a little bit for you because I’m curious to know if you’ve done any research on this specifically. I feel like kids in general, and I may be opening up a huge can of worms here, and if I am, just say we’ll talk about that on another episode, and then we’ll have to come back. Kids today, I think as I’m watching my girls who are both in the teen ish years, one’s closer to being an adult, one’s just entering into her teen years. There are two things that I see that have really impacted them socially and emotionally. And I don’t this is not just home school related. This is kids related, is COVID and social media. Those two things, I think, have had a great impact on kids emotions and their social anxiety, ability to socialize with other kids. Have you done any research on that end at all? And if so, what are you seeing?

Dr. Brian Ray:

I’ve only reviewed research, not personally done research. But it’s fascinating to ask that I just read today another set of statistics from the CDC, the federal government. Not that I necessarily trust them, but anyway, depression rates are completely gone out of off the charts. It’s like at least 20 some percent of adults are depressed or more depressed. There’s research that’s very clear from the past year that researchers have been doing about teens. The suicidal ideation is up statistically in the last few years, and it was already going up, it looks like. I don’t think there’s any way for anybody to make an argument that institutionalizing children in these places we call school, where most of us went, is improving their psychological health. I don’t know where there’s an argument for that. When you look at the government lockdowns and mask mandates and injection mandates and all that, and scaring the children and adults half to death, that to even interact with people would make them sick. And I’m going to be careful here, too. But it has had a very negative effect and many research are now admitting that the same things that they once called conspiracy theory are true. And so it’s not good at all. There’s been a lot of that. And the social media Yvette, we know from research that there’s addiction, it’s not health, it’s negative to their social skills. So I really would pray that parents here’s the problem even parents who profess to be Christians and who homeschool their children have to admit that they have been slowly boiled in the water like that frog we all know about. And I’m guessing a large portion of people listening right now are way more on screen time and social media than they ever should be. They need to get off of it and get outside with their children, do things with their children. Not only we have all that. I mean, you’ve got me on a roll, NHERI Vet. Not only do we have that, we have skyrocketing obesity rates. The majority of American young adults cannot even get into the military now because they’re obese. All of this is tied together. It’s all tied together. And it’s also tied into the fact that many parents, including some watching, are more worried about what their children think than what they know is good for their children. So when they say, hey, Billy and Susie, get outside and you’re going to go play for 15 minutes, I don’t want you, then the parents buckle to that, but they’ve got to say you’re going out. And then even better would be if the parents would go outside with them. But you’ve got me on a topic and there’s a lot of negative impact, especially over the last few years from both government controls on those things we were just talking about and children and parents spending way too much time sitting and looking at the screen.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, and social media is you’re right on all of that. When I think about kids being in school, public or private, social media is one of the reasons now that we can add to the list of not having our kids in school because they are exposed to everything. There are no limits. Teachers can try to take phones away. Administration can try to put lockdowns on them, whatever. It’s never going to happen.

Dr. Brian Ray:

It doesn’t work.

Yvette Hampton:

As long as kids have phones in their pockets and in their backpacks, all it takes is sneaking into the bathroom and pulling up some websites, even if they’re not looking at anything inappropriate. It’s just the addiction of all the kids standing around on their phones all Ray long. And so all the kids feel like they have to do that because it’s what all their friends are doing. And you don’t want to be the odd, weird one out who’s not on your phone. And so, I mean, it just is so destructive. And so you talk about weird.

Dr. Brian Ray:

There’s research on it, home school research on it. It’s harming them. It’s harming them all the way through. So homeschoolers, you have the option to not do that. And mom and dad, you have the option to be disciplined yourself. So when you all get home at night and you say, hey, there’s the basket over there. And if your children do have cell phones and mom and dad, your cell phone goes in the basket for a couple of hours together as a family.

Yvette Hampton:

I want to talk about the success of the homeschooled kids now who are into their adulthood, because we’ve heard, of course, that there are adults who are like, oh, I hated being homeschooled. It was a terrible thing for me. And then you’ve got adults who are like, I was homeschooled my whole life, and it’s been amazing. And you have definitely both ends of the spectrum. And then, of course, as homeschooled parents today, we worry about whether or not our kids will make it into adulthood successfully and what that will look like. And when I say successfully, I know Dr. Ray’s heart is the same. I don’t mean being able to get the best education with the best job so that they can make the most money and have the biggest house and the best vacations. I mean, success according to what God has called them to do. So talk a little bit about success of the homeschool in adulthood now that.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Has been studied in many different ways. I’ve got to do a few of those studies, and some others have done it. And so they range all the way from, okay, now you’re an adult. How often are you depressed? Okay, how much are you into alcohol abuse? If you went to college, what’s your GPA? And did you finish college? Do you vote? Do you trust the government? I mean, there’s so many fascinating studies about adults, but here’s all of those together, when you put them all in one big pot, stirred up, get this 169 percent of peer reviewed studies on adults who are home educated show that they are doing better statistically than those who went to institutional schools. So in other words, the large majority of the studies say they’re doing better. So what about the other 31% of the studies? Most of those say, hey, no difference in what we measured. So in other words, they’re doing as well or better less addiction to drugs, less depression, less problems acting out toward other people doing better in college, if they go to college. So that’s just what we know so far. I mean, again, Yvette, everybody has to remember this does not mean all people who are homeschooled are rocket scientists who love life and never get depressed. It doesn’t mean that. But it does mean, as a group, there’s something about home education that is helping people more than other people. And you kind of mentioned something there for a minute about we have all these stories of, well, I was home educated. I hated it. Well, I was home educated. The best thing since sliced bread. Remember, those are just anecdotes and now this is my experience. I’m going to tell you my experience. Most of the ones who say it was bad, they were raised by Christian parents, and they themselves now, these adults are not Christians, okay? They’re making complaints about the philosophy under which they were raised. Remember all the schools we said, whether they’re public schooling, private school, or homeschooling, teach a philosophy to their children. And you know what? Home of them, when they get older, reject that philosophy. Some people who are raised in public schools who are taught a secular humanistic, evolutionistic status, Marxist LGBTQ philosophy, they reject that and they become Christians. Right?

Yvette Hampton:

Right.

Dr. Brian Ray:

So you have the same thing with homeschooling. But overall, if you look at it kind of from a research, quantitative, qualitative perspective, the home educated are doing better in adulthood.

Yvette Hampton:

That’s exciting news. It brings hope, I think. I know for myself as a homeschool mom, that gives me a lot of hope. Let’s talk really quickly about the changing demographics of the homeschool community because you have seen it change drastically in 39 years. I mean, we’ve seen the public school system change drastically, but homeschooling, I think, has really changed drastically. Talk about that for a minute.

Dr. Brian Ray:

At the beginning of the modern homeschool movement, there was a stereotype, and there’s always a little bit of truth to a stereotype.

Yvette Hampton:

Right?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Homeschoolers were either kind of like left wing, hippie wear birkenstocks, move to the country, blow up your TV, and raise a know that was one stereotype. Or they were more like right wing, white, Christian fundamentalist Bible thumpers. All right? So those stereotypes are not exactly true, but there was some truth to it. There was always the variety. But keep in mind, there was always the variety. So what we’ve seen over the last 35 to 40 years, the variety is there, and it’s just increasing, whereas maybe I’m just going to make up numbers here. Maybe 20 years ago, you would not have found online well, there wasn’t so much online, but anyway, you would not have found a Wiccan home school group, or you would not have found a Naturist home school group. Now you can find almost everything online. You can find almost everything online. In terms of philosophy. Why do I mention philosophy? Because the philosophy drives almost everything. Right. So philosophy drives what kind of curriculum you choose and how you sure.

Yvette Hampton:

It goes back to indoctrination.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Sure. And remember, we’ve had john Holtz was one of the first people promoting what we call homeschooling today, and he talked about unschooling. We’ve had that for 40 years. Right. I mean, that’s a big difference from structured school at home. So we’ve had all these varieties. Another significant change we’ve seen is that many more people from different ethnicities are homeschooling or different skin colors, whatever you want to call it. Way more of that than we saw before. Yes, it did look very white Anglo before, and now it does. Not anymore. I mean, homeschooling has grown tremendously, especially in the last five. Very diverse amongst black families. African Americans and Hispanics are coming. Most people don’t even talk about down. When you go to the Southwest and you speak at a homeschool conference in the Southwest, people don’t even specify Hispanic or not. They’re just NHERI. It’s interesting. That tells you something about our culture. But anyway, so we’ve seen changes in that. We’ve seen a big variety in what’s available to people online. So that kind of alters what people do and how they do it. There’s just a lot of changes. Many changes.

Yvette Hampton:

Yeah, many good changes. Some not so exciting, not so good. But I think overall the changes have been really good. And I think from personally, the change that I think is the most exciting is the acceptance of homeschooling is that people no longer look at homeschoolers and are like, what you’re doing? What you’re teaching your kids at home? I mean, I’m out with my kids all the time, and this is our 13th year of homeschooling, and we lived in Southern California. And always, I mean, since my girls were in kindergarten, we always have made our way out into the grocery store, into the library, wherever. We just have done life. And we’ve had a couple of people give us funny looks, oh, are you girls out of school today? And they’ll say, no, we’re homeschooling. Oh, okay. But not so much anymore. I mean, it is just so widely accepted, and not even just accepted, it’s celebrated. I think more and more parents, more and more people, I should say, are opening up their eyes to what’s happening in the public schools. And they’re going, oh. And almost always they say, oh, I have a neighborhood home schools, or my niece home school or my daughter home school. And it’s like they’re excited to know someone else who’s part of this club. So that’s really cool. All right, I want to end with one question. This is kind of a tough topic, and I don’t want to park too long NHERI. But I think that it needs to be addressed. And I think in your research, you have tackled this a little bit, and people will talk about child abuse and neglect in homeschool families, and of course, you’ll hear stories about these kids, which it’s so heartbreaking. They have been terribly abused, and the parents will state, oh, well, we homeschool them because people always ask the question, well, why weren’t they in school? Why didn’t anybody notice that these kids were being chained up or rocked up or neglected, malnourished, whatever? And they put that homeschool label on them. And of course, kids who are in institutional school, there’s lots of child abuse that goes on there too. Have you done specific research when it comes to the area of child abuse and neglect of institutionally schooled kids versus homeschool kids?

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yes, it’s a study that I had been thinking about doing for probably at least ten years of it. And finally okay, wow. A couple of years ago, we got on it, and people like people watching right now gave us money to support the study. Before I get into that, because I know we got to go fast. First of all yes. In public school families, home school families, and private school families, sometimes parents do evil things, and it’s evil and it’s bad. So let’s just get that off on the table and off the table. So no one’s excusing that ever, right?

Yvette Hampton:

No justification for it, ever.

Dr. Brian Ray:

Yeah. We wanted to know from a quantitative perspective and to help an honest discussion for policy and law. Okay, so is there any difference? Because we’ve had people, including professors, just throw out wild claims that homeschooling either disproportionately abuse their children or it’s a way to really hide it, that kind of thing. So we really want to know about so my colleague and I, Dr. Denise Shaquille, worked on this, and we started collecting data, and we finally got it done and published it in a peer reviewed journal last fall. You can find it, and it’s posted online, and it’s open access, which means anybody can read it, and you don’t have to pay $40 to read the article, which is wonderful. This is what we found, two big, major findings. Our subjects are adults, okay? And they’re looking back at growing up. There are a lot of reasons for doing it that way. It’s extremely difficult to query minors about this kind of thing. So we worked with adults and told us they told us what happened to them growing up. First major finding when you statistically put into the model demographics, like parent education level, family income, how many years children had been or not been in foster care, ethnicity. Race, all those things when you put those in like you should do in most any study, no significant difference between those who were institutionally schooled and those who were homeschool in terms of abuse and neglect growing up. No significant difference. Now we’ll come back to that second major finding for the no significantly different amount of abuse that had been perpetrated on those who were homeschooled. So remember, no significant difference home school versus schooled for those who were homeschooled, it was not being done the evil things by their parents in the home. It was being done to them outside the home at places like schools or museums or sports or those kinds of things. So that’s the second major of two major findings of the study. So what does that mean? People who wanted homeschooling to look good were a little disappointed and people who wanted institutional schooling to look good were kind of disappointed. No significant difference. And then for that which was happening to those who were homeschool, that was actually a positive finding that it was not happening at home, it was happening outside the home. So that’s really a big deal. It doesn’t sound like the end of the world kind of study, but it’s a big deal because it’s the opposite of what a lot of negative critics were claiming without, you know, first of know, we presume in America that people are innocent until they’re found guilty. And the biblical role of government is to punish evildoers. It’s not to try to catch somebody who might do something wrong. We just don’t work that way. So the people who want to control homeschooling thinking maybe it’ll do better for life, I mean, they’re wrong in terms of constitutional philosophy and they’re wrong in terms of biblical philosophy. Secondly, now we have concrete evidence that there’s no problem. There’s no problem to try to solve.

Getting Started in Homeschooling, with Israel Wayne

Few subjects bring so much fear and uncertainty to parents as the thought of pulling their kids out of school and homeschooling them. While there are a wealth of fantastic resources available and a thriving homeschool movement across the country, until families take the leap into homeschooling there are always going to be unknowns and the nagging thoughts of “am I able”, “am I enough”, “will my kids get a good education”, “will my kids be able to get into college”, and the ever-present “what about socialization.”

Even if your kids haven’t started school yet and you are just considering homeschooling your preschooler or kindergartener, many of those same questions and doubts persist, and too many times this is compounded by the objections of friends and family members.

Here’s the good news. You can do this! Literally MILLIONS of students are being homeschooled right now. Not only have Millions been homeschooled since the rise of modern homeschooling, many more have been homeschooled throughout history, as “traditional school” has only been the standard for the past 150 years or so.

There’s even more good news. Not only can you do this, but it will be good for your children. Homeschooled students are thriving. Decades of research is now proving that homeschooled students are, on the whole, better prepared for college and life than their public and private schooled peers. Here are just a few links to back up these claims:

https://www.nheri.org/research/research-facts-on-homeschooling.html

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/TotalGroup-2014.pdf

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/college-game-plan/colleges-welcome-growing-number-homeschooled-students-n520126

http://newsonrelevantscience.blogspot.com/2011/09/httpwwwonlinecollegeorg2011091315-key.html

Ready to take your children back? Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free tonight and learn how. After you have watched the movie, download the Free Homeschool Survival Kit. This free 70+ page resource will give you the encouragement and tools you need to start strong and finish well. 

If you, or someone you know, is considering homeschooling we encourage you to attend the Homegrown Generation Family Expo. We have gathered an amazing group of speakers together for over 50 hours of homeschooling encouragement and practical advice.

Homegrown Generation Family Expo - Online Homeschool Conference

Homeschooling is good for students, good for families, and good for culture, so it is our mission to encourage and equip homeschooling families to start well and finish strong.

Yvette Hampton recently talked with author and speaker, Israel Wayne about how to start homeschooling – how to do it well – and how to make it to graduation and beyond! Israel Wayne is the author of Answers for Homeschooling: Top 25 Questions Critics Ask, which answers many of the questions that people have when considering whether homeschooling is appropriate for their family. In this conversation, Israel and Yvette discuss why so many families choose to homeschool and how the alternatives (public school, and private school) are really doing. They also discuss whether homeschooling is appropriate for all types of families, or if it is best suited to certain groups.

They also discussed what steps a family should take when they want to start homeschooling and what really matters once they start, whether it’s curriculum choices, educational methods, scheduling, organization, life skills, relationships, or discipleship. Finally, Israel gives helpful insights for dads in leading their families in instruction and discipleship.

Enjoy their conversation

Yvette Hampton:           Hey, everyone, this is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I have a return guest on with me today, and he is one of my absolute favorite homeschool people, one of my favorite guests that we’ve ever had on the podcast. As a matter of fact, Israel, I think that your podcast, I don’t think, I know that your podcast interview that I did with you quite some time ago is one of the most listened to that we’ve ever done. I am so excited to have you back on. Israel Wayne, welcome to the podcast again.

Israel Wayne:                Hey, it’s great to be back with you. Thank you so much.

Yvette Hampton:           Thank you. Thank you. You are such a blessing to us. We have really enjoyed getting to know you, Garritt and I. We’re excited, because you’re going to be part of the Homegrown Generation Family Expo that we have coming up February 17th through the 21st. It’s so funny, because people keep looking at the list of speakers that we have at our speaker lineup and just going “Oh my goodness, this is amazing, you have the best of the best of the homeschool heroes.” And I don’t say that to puff you up. I say that because you have truly had a huge impact in not only my life, but I know the lives of thousands and thousands of families. We are very honored. It is only by the grace of God that we have the speakers that we have for this event, and you are one of them that from the very beginning we said, “We’ve got to get Israel as a speaker for this event.” So thank you for joining us for that in a few weeks, and thank you for being with me again on the podcast today.

Israel Wayne:                Absolutely.

Yvette Hampton:           Tell us very quickly about your family, because you’ve got a couple of kids and a wife who you really like.

Israel Wayne:                Yes, absolutely. Well, my homeschool journey actually started when I was a child. My family began homeschooling in 1978, which is like what, 42 years ago now? I’ve been in it my whole life, and was homeschooled all the way through high school, met my wife, who was homeschooled. Her family started homeschooling in 1983. Both of our families were pioneer homeschooling families. My mother founded and published the Home School Digest magazine since 1988, so I kind of grew up in the leadership side of homeschooling as well. So when my wife and I got married, being that we were homeschooled pretty much our whole way through, it was a foregone conclusion for us that we would homeschool our children. Lord has so far blessed us with 10 children. The oldest is 19, and the youngest has just turned a year. We have 10 children sandwiched in there between 19 and 10. Our oldest is working full-time. We have a daughter that just turned 18, a son that turned 16, I’m taking him to driver’s ed here later today.

Yvette Hampton:           Oh no! Wow!

Israel Wayne:                It’s one of those things. We actually have four teenagers living in our home right now, and then some little ones too. So we’re kind of hitting it on all cylinders, all sides of the parenting spectrum, we’re deeply entrenched in now, the parenting scene and the homeschooling world as well. Now, I speak at conferences and write books on homeschooling as well.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, that’s awesome, and you don’t write books just on homeschooling, you write books on family, on parenting and things like that as well. So, that is exciting. We’re doing a series right now on getting started homeschooling. This time of the year is that time where, as you know, because you’ve been in homeschooling for quite a long time, it’s that time of year where you kind of get into that slump. A lot of moms, they’re thinking through “Okay, why am I doing this? Am I going to do this again next year? What does our family look like?”, and reevaluating their decision to homeschool. Many of them are sold out on homeschooling and they wouldn’t do anything different, but they’re still having to think through what the rest of this year and next year is going to look like for them. Then you’ve got that kind of group of parents who are starting to think … There’s something about the holidays where we come into the new year and we start thinking “What are we going to do next year for our kids and for their education?”

Yvette Hampton:           We’ve got that group of parents too who are just saying “What are we going to do? How are we going to educate our kids next year? Are we going to send them to public school, private school, homeschool? What are the options here for me?” And those are always my favorite people to talk to. I love nothing more than being able to talk heart-to-heart with another mom and just explain to her why homeschooling is so beneficial to our families. I would love for you to be able to talk about “what are some of the benefits of school?”, “Why do this?”, “Why get started in this whole journey of homeschooling?” Because it’s not always easy. It’s a lot of work actually, but it’s so worth it, and anything worth doing is hard. Can you just talk to the heart of those parents who are maybe just kind of thinking through “Okay, where are we going with this? What are we going to do next?”

Israel Wayne:                Sure. Well, not all homeschoolers are religious, and not religious homeschoolers are of the same faith or religion. But for my wife and I, we’re Christians, and our Christian faith is very important to us. It’s a very defining aspect of our life and who we are. We want to be able to pass our faith onto our children, but I think for all parents, whether they’re religious or not, there’s a desire to pass their values onto their children and to teach them the things that are important to them. Then relationship. One of the things that I talk about in my books is the importance of influence, and if you want to have influence in your child’s life, you have to spend time with them. It’s unfortunate that the vast majority of children growing up in the United States, their parents are not the predominate influence in their life, simply because the parents have given away the number one factor or force in influence, which is time.

Israel Wayne:                So if you want to have influence in your child’s life you need to buy back time, and homeschooling is a wonderful way to do that, because you get to actually be present with your children, to be with them and to teach them your faith and values. In the process of that you will have more conflict, I’ll just be honest, if you do that, as with any relationship, because when you spend time around people you see your faults and you rub each other the wrong way. It’s kind of like marriage, right? The more that you spend time with somebody the more that they can irritate you? But I don’t know very many people who say “The more you spend time with somebody the more possibility there is for conflict or irritations, so don’t get married.”

Israel Wayne:                Most people recognize that there’s a huge payoff in that, yeah, you have more opportunity for conflict, but you have more opportunity for a deep profound loving relationship as well. That’s true with our children, that the more that we spend time with them, them more we’re around them, those conflicts actually give us an opportunity to press into real relationship and a quality and a level of relationship that we would never have if we only saw them occasionally. The same thing with like a marriage relationship, you would just never have the opportunity to really get to know someone or grow into deep love with someone if you just see them occasionally. This opportunity that we have with these children to be the primary influence in their life, for me, as the credit card commercial says, that’s priceless.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah. I love that. A few weeks ago I interviewed Durenda Wilson, and we were talking about sibling relationships. One of the things that really hit me during our conversation was we were talking about the opportunity that we have as parents to work with our children through their relationship with one another as siblings. Sometimes that can be a really, really hard thing. But what struck me about our conversation was I thought as parents we have a responsibility to teach our children how to handle relationships with other people, and if you can imagine, everyone working and really putting effort and being intentional about teaching our children to get along with one another and to be forgiving and to be loving and to be selfless, and all the of the things that you would expect in a marriage and that you want in a marriage, if we can teach that to our kids with their brothers and sisters, imagine how much better they are going to be prepared for a successful marriage, because you take those same characteristics into marriage and you’re going to have a pretty solid good marriage.

Yvette Hampton:           But when kids learn to be selfish and they’re not around each other and they’re not used to building those family relationship, it makes it hard going into a marriage to then know how to do that. The sibling relationships are so important in addition to the parent/child relationships.

Israel Wayne:                Yeah, for sure. And I’m seeing the fruit of my investment right now in my children, particularly with my oldest, because he works 40 hours a week, and then he volunteers for some things with our church. So he’s gone a lot. So we don’t have that same time that we used to have when he was here all the time and we were teaching him and so forth. But at 19 years old he’s a man now, and he does still live at home for now. But because he’s so busy and he’s working our relational dynamic has changed, and I am, and he is, we’re both best friends in way. My wife and I are best friends, but he’s one of my best friends in the whole world. So our dynamic has changed where it’s not so much parent/child as much as it is that we really are friends.

Israel Wayne:                I appreciate that I have influence in his life that if there ever is anything that I need to talk to him about, like decisions that he’s making or whatever, most of the time he’ll come to me and he’ll ask me for advice and he’ll look for input, or if there’s ever a time where I feel like I need to give him advice or council on a certain direction I try to be sparing with that. He’s open to it, and the reason is because, I look at it a little bit like, I didn’t invent this analogy, but like a relationship bank. Where you put deposits into the bank and you can make a withdrawal every once in a while, because there’s enough cash in there to float a withdrawal. If there’s something I need to talk to him about and say “You know what? I think this decision would be a good decision for you”, or “I think this would be a better decision for you.”

Israel Wayne:                I have some investment there that he will listen to that and he’ll take that onboard because he respects me. And he respects me because I put the time in. Our children have to know that we have their best interests at mind and at heart, and that the things that we’re doing for them, we really are doing for them. Not because it’s easiest for us. Not because it’s most convenient for us, but because we really believe that this is the best decision for them, and of course we’re parents, right? So we’re going to mess up sometimes.

Israel Wayne:                We won’t always call that right, but if your children really believe that you are for them, that you love them, you like them, that you have their best interests in mind and you have invested the best of yourself and your time and your energy in them, generally speaking, that comes back to you in terms of respect and relationship and influence later on in life. But when they know that they’ve been second fiddle, when they know that they’re way down on the priority list, maybe not even two or three, maybe like 8th, 9th, 10th … The average parent in America spends 19 minutes a day with their child.

Yvette Hampton:           Wow.

Israel Wayne:                19 minutes a day.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, why even have them?

Israel Wayne:                Yeah, and the average parent in America watches two and a half hours of TV or Netflix every night of their life. I think kids understand that they’re just not a priority to mom and dad in most cases. So when parents come back to them at 18 years old and they’re trying to tell them what they should do … I hear parents all the time, “I don’t know why my kid doesn’t listen to me. He doesn’t like me, won’t pay attention, and ignores everything I say.” Well, they got ignored their whole childhood. So you didn’t put the time in, didn’t put the investment in. So for us, homeschooling is really just an extension of parenting and relationship. I call it Parenting With Academics. We’re not really doing anything radically different. It’s not school-at-home. It’s just the parenting and relationship process, adding academics to that mix.

Yvette Hampton:           Oh, that’s such a great answer. I love that. We were talking about just that relationship between parent and child, and I know when we’re talking about homeschooling and why parents should homeschool oftentimes we talk about it from the perspective of “Don’t put your child in public school.” And I’m going to ask you a question that I know is going to step on some toes, and I don’t ask this in order to do so. I ask this because I really want to think through this. I want parents listening to this to actually think through the process of this, and I want to talk about private Christian school, because oftentimes parents will say “Well, I wouldn’t put my kids in a public school because clearly what they’re being taught there is completely against everything that God’s word says, but if I put them in this really good Christian private school they’ll be fine.”

Yvette Hampton:           And let me just give a disclaimer here. I grew up in a really good Christian private school. I loved the school that I went to and I was discipled by my teachers that I had. I had great Christian, solid Christian, teachers who really helped guide my spiritual walk as a teenager. But that is certainly not always the case, and even now Garritt and I have really come to the conclusion for our family that we believe that homeschooling is best, even if there was a perfect … Well, I shouldn’t say perfect. There’s no such thing as a perfect school or a perfect homeschool. But even if there was an excellent Christian school, as you will, talk to the parent who’s maybe considering “Well, we have this opportunity to put him in a good Christian school or homeschool, because now I look at the relationship part of it and I think I would never want to give up that time with my child and me being the one to disciple them.” What would you say to that parent?

Israel Wayne:                Well, when you look in scripture there’s three different categories that we can evaluate this from. The first is what does God command, or what does God prescribe, and then the second would be what does God allow? Then the third is what does God forbid? Then we can take those three principles and we can apply them to education, and you’ll find that if you’re looking simply at what the scripture prescribes, what it commands, you find repeated commandments for parents to teach their children, instruct their children, disciple their children, discipline their children, train them in the way that they should go. You have multiple passages, dozens of passages in the Bible where God commands parents to teach their children. There are no other groups in the Bible, other people groups, or agencies, that are commanded by God to teach children except in a couple of places. Grandparents, where it says “Teach your sons and sons’ sons”, or “Your children and your children’s children.”

Israel Wayne:                You have just a couple of passages where grandparents are commanded by God to teach their grandchildren. But for the most part it’s parents. Interestingly, the government is never commanded to teach children. They’re told in 1 Peter 2:14 and then Romans 13 that they’re supposed to bear the sword to punish the evildoer, that’s their responsibility. You don’t bear a sword … Bearing the sword doesn’t have anything to do with raising children. Then the church, interestingly, and this’ll be hard for some people, but do your own study on it, there are no passages in the new testament where the church is ever commanded specifically to teach children as a separate entity or separate group, and there are no examples in the new testament early church where the new testament church ever did it. There are none. We have built this entire infrastructure within the church on the idea of the church being responsible for teaching children, and there’s not one verse anywhere in the new testament that supports that concept.

Israel Wayne:                Now, so then you ask “Well, then are you saying it’s forbidden?” Well, no. Things that are not specifically forbidden in scripture, in direct command or in principle, are allowable. So is it wrong for the church to teach children? No, it’s not, and certainly in the context of the body, or the context of the entire church you don’t want to disciple everyone in the church. That’s part of the thing. But a more fully Biblically orbed view of the church’s role in education is that they’re supposed to teach parents how to teach their children. They’re supposed to disciple parents to know how to disciple their own children, not to be replacement parents, not to be surrogate parents who do the work for them. I see very few churches that operate that way, very few churches that even have an understanding of that. I wrote a book called Education: Does God Have an Opinion? And in this book, I talk a lot about that whole concept of what does the Bible say about education and what are the parameters that we should have when we look at this issue?

Israel Wayne:                Finally, when we look at what does God forbid in education, you’ll find that anti-Christian teaching is forbidden. Very expressly, very clearly, in multiple places in scripture, as a Christian parent you cannot lie to your children, you cannot give them false narratives about who God is, about the reality of life and how God is ordained and orchestrated in life-to-work and gender identity and all of those kinds of things. It’s not optional for us to promote an educational system that lies to our children and teaches them things that false, and teaches them things that are anti-Christian. That’s not an option. So, back to Christian schools. Are they allowable? Biblically they’re allowable in that they’re not expressly forbidden in direct command or in principle, but I think when you look at Deuteronomy six and some other passages where Deuteronomy six, it talks about how you’re supposed to teach your children from the time that you wake up in the morning to the time that you go to sleep at night, and you’re supposed to teach them whether they’re inside your house or outside your house.

Israel Wayne:                Is there ever a time when you’re not inside your house or outside your house? Is there ever a time when you’re awake that it isn’t encompassed in that Deuteronomy six mandate? I think you’d have a really hard time doing that when you’re sending your children away from you for over 10000 hours between kindergarten and 12th grade. I don’t know how you fulfill the commands that you’re told to do in scripture when your children are being sent away from you. So there are situations that are less than ideal, and I think that we need to be sympathetic to those.

Israel Wayne:                But even those situations where you don’t have the ideal scenario, you have maybe one parent and that parents has to work and whatever, and other people have to come along and make up for the lack based on the condition, it still has to be in the fear of the lord, it still has to be based on the truth. It can’t be anti-Christian. So there’s a place I think for Christian education that doesn’t look like parents teaching within the home. I think there’s a place for that, but we wouldn’t consider that to be the normal prescribed approach or method in scripture.

Yvette Hampton:           Well said. I want to say, I’m not trying to put down anybody who has their children in school, because like you said, there are many situations where that is necessary. We have a friend, she has cancer right now, and she’s been struggling with her health for years now, and she had to put her children in school this year. It just broke her heart, because she really wants to be home with them, but she couldn’t physically be home with them. So they had to put their kids in school. And God is faithful, our kids belong to him. So I’m not trying to shame anybody who does. I just want to think through-

Israel Wayne:                Yeah, we welcome the church to come along in those moments and help us. One thing I want to say though too is that the average cost for private school right now is 8600 dollars per year per child.

Yvette Hampton:           Yes, it’s very expensive.

Israel Wayne:                Which is crazy-expensive, and parents do it thinking “These people are going to give my children a strong Biblical world view”, and I want to encourage parents to do two things, Google Search a couple of things. Number one, the Gen 2 Survey. G-E-N, the number two, and then Survey. They have a chart in that survey, the Gen 2 Survey, it’s the largest study on church millennials. They have a chart in there that shows how education impacts the outcome of people having faith in Christ, having good relationship with their parents, having satisfaction in life, having a life that reflects Christian values and Christian fruit I guess you would say. All of those things are very dramatically impacted by the education that they receive, and Christian schools, according to the Gen 2 Survey, are producing negative results in your children becoming a Christian, living like a Christian, having a Biblical worldview, having a close relationship with mom and dad and having satisfaction in life. Negative in every one of those categories on the whole.

Yvette Hampton:           Wow.

Israel Wayne:                Christian schools are actually negating against the Christian faith, not helping it, not improving it. Your child is less likely to be a Christian if they go to a Christian school than if they’re homeschooled, by far.

Yvette Hampton:           Wow.

Israel Wayne:                Another thing that I’ll point you to is NehemiahInstitute.com. If you go to NehemiahInstitue.com, on the very homepage there is a graphic that shows Biblical worldview assessment tests of students that are homeschooled, those that are in public school, and those that in Christian school, those that in public school and Christian school, a very low Biblical worldview and decreasing. It’s been decreasing since 1988. Whereas, homeschooling is significantly better and is slightly increasing. Both the Gen 2 Survey and the Nehemiah Institute show that Christian schools and public schools are both actually negative to faith outcomes, whereas homeschooling is positive. So we don’t base what we do on statistics, we base what we do on scripture, but the statistics seem to be bearing out what we find prescribed in scripture, parents taking responsibility for the discipleship of their children works, sending your children away from you to people, who in many cases you don’t even know, to teach your children things, you don’t know what they’re being taught. That approach is not working.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, I agree. You were talking earlier about the church and how oftentimes we expect the church to do the discipling of our children and to teach them spiritually and to grow them spiritually. Oftentimes I think parents do that with school as well. We expect them to not just educate them academically, but to educate them spiritually, and that’s a dangerous road to take, because Luke 6:40 says “A student will become like his master.” Well, do you know every one of their teachers, even if it’s a Christian school? Like I said, I went to a great Christian school, but this was almost 30 years ago, and I had great teachers but not all of them were believers. And that’s a touch place, but even when we do that, just like when we go to church, it’s still the parents’ responsibility. So when they’re coming home from school, whether it’s public or private, are we knowing what they’ve been taught and are we undoing anything that has been negatively taught to them according to God’s word, and are we still taking that role of discipleship with their hearts, because that still ultimately is the role of parents?

Israel Wayne:                One more thing on the Christian schools. Nehemiah Institute has a Biblical worldview assessment test, and the Christian school teachers as well as students, and one of the things that they show is that the majority of Christian school teachers actually have a worldview that is either secular, humanist, or socialist. And you think “Well, how could that be?” I was talking with Dan Smith with the guy that is the leader of Nehemiah Institute, and he said that one of the reasons for that is that schools, because they cost so much money, Christian schools, they are requiring these teachers to be certified. 30 years ago that wasn’t a requirement, but now the schools are requiring they have teacher certification.

Israel Wayne:                Well, where do they get that teacher certification? In most cases if you graduate from a teacher school you have gotten the most anti-Christian humanist socialist education on the planet, and you’ve been certified that you passed. So you bring these teachers in on the basis of their academic credentials and that they sign your statement of faith, but most schools never have any Biblical worldview assessment that they give before they hire to find out do they know how to think Biblically about social issues and about economics and science and so forth.

Yvette Hampton:           Right. I don’t remember who I heard this from for the first time, it was many years ago. But as I heard when my oldest was a baby I think, is that we’re not raising children, we are raising adults. And that’s very true. We’re raising adults, we’re raising these kids to be all that God has created them to be. In your book called Education: Does God Have an Opinion, in the appendix on that one you have a sectioned called A Christian Education Manifesto. I would love for you to kind of jump into that and talk about what that is.

Israel Wayne:                Sure. Well, I’ve often had people say to me that God doesn’t have an opinion on education, God doesn’t care how we educate our children, there’s no one-size-fits-all, what works for you may not work for me, there’s public school, private school, charter school, online school, homeschool, and people often say “You can’t say that God has one prescribed approach that’s the right fit for everybody.” That sounds really good, until you actually study the scripture on it, and my book, Education: Does God Have an Opinion, this book came out of a conversation that I had with my mother when I was a teenager, a young teenager, and I made that statement. I said “I don’t know whether I’ll homeschool my children or not. I guess I’ll just have to find out what my wife wants to do”, and I kind of liked being homeschooled myself. There were definite perks to it. I liked not having to get up till 9:00 in the morning and do school in my pajamas and not have to stand outside when it was cold and wait for the school bus.

Israel Wayne:                There were perks, there were things I thought were pretty good about homeschooling, but as a young teen I’d never really done a scriptural study on it. My mom encouraged me, she said “I would like you to write an essay and defend that viewpoint, that God doesn’t care about education, it doesn’t matter how you educate your children. Defend that viewpoint, but defend it from the Bible, not just your opinion, but find scripture that actually supports your view that any form of schooling is equal and valid.” So, I thought, “Well, this shouldn’t take too long.” I thought I’d be able to whip something together in a couple hours, and I started studying that topic and boy, 30 years later I’m still studying the topic. But I found I was definitively wrong, that God was not silent on education, that God wrote voluminously on the issue of education and the scripture, both old testament and new testament, is absolutely full of statements of how God wants his children to be educated. He’s not silent on the issue, he has spoken.

Israel Wayne:                So that appendix is mostly just scripture verses. This whole book has a lot of scripture in it all the way through it, but that appendix in the back is kind of a compilation where I just took a bunch of passages of scripture and applied it. One thing I’ll say about it is that when you see a universal principle that applied to everything, that universal principle that applies to everything applies to everything that it applies to. Everything it applies to is everything. So if you’re talking about everything, then you’re also talking about education, because education is a subset of everything. When you see something that God says that’s universally true for everything, then you have to say, “God has made this statement about education as well.” So just when you look through some of these passages, let me just grab a few of them, we sometimes don’t think about some of these passages as applying to education in particular, or schooling.

Israel Wayne:                Like take Psalm 1 for example, it says “Blessed is the man who walks not in the council of the wicked.” Let’s just stop there. What kind of council are your children getting in the school that they’re in? Is it Godly council, or is it ungodly council? Is it wicked council? Is it teaching them the truth about their origins, or is it lying to them about who made them and where they came from? Is it teaching that God created everything in six days, or is it teaching them that they’re the result of a cosmic accident four billion years ago? Is it teaching them that God made them male and female, or is it teaching them that gender is a fluid concept? Is it teaching them that there are moral absolutes and there’s right and wrong that’s truly objective for all people and all places and all times, or is it teaching them relativism, that truth is in the eye of the beholder and what might be true for you is not true for me, we can decide our own truth, we can make our own path?

Israel Wayne:                What is it teaching them about even sex before marriage, and so many of these things? But what is the school teaching them? Is it Godly council, or is it ungodly? Well, this tells us we’re supposed to avoid the council of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners. What’s the social environment of the school like? Is it a Godly social environment? We’re told in Proverbs 13:20 that “He who walks with wise will become wise, but a companion of fools will be destroyed.” What’s the social environment like? Or in 1 Corinthians 15:33 we’re told “Do not be deceived. Bad company corrupts good character.” So what kind of social environment are your children being exposed to? So many times people bring up the socialization quote, “Aren’t you concerned about socialization?”

Yvette Hampton:           Yes.

Israel Wayne:                “Well, yes. That’s why we’re homeschooling. We don’t want our children to be in the way of sinners.” Now you’re saying “Oh, so you’re saying that you want to isolate your children and never allow them to spend time with anyone who’s not a Christian?” Well, I talked about this in the first podcast and those that didn’t listen to it should go back and listen to it, but the number one factor in influence in someone’s life is time, and if you let your children spend significant time around other children, those children will influence your child. It will just happen. If you let them spend time around anybody! A video game console. An iPod.

Israel Wayne:                They’re going to be influenced by what they spend most time around. So the question is who do you want to be that influence, their peer group, or you as a parent? If you spend time around wise people you become wise, but around foolish people you will be destroyed. Well, what are foolish people? Well, in Proverbs 22:15 it says, “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.” That’s one Biblical definition of a fool. The other Biblical definition of a fool that comes to mind is when the scripture says, “The fool has said in his heart there is no God.” So what do we do as Christian parents?

Israel Wayne:                We think “I want my child to be well-rounded, and I want them to be successful in life, so I’m going to put them in a classroom with 30 to 40 children that the Bible says has foolishness bound up in their heart and have an atheist teacher who says there is no God, and if they’re not in that environment with this atheist teacher that the Bible calls a fool, and these students that God calls foolish, if they’re not just immersed in this pool of foolishness they won’t be able to grow up and be socially well-adjusted.” Well, where did we get that idea? We didn’t get that idea from scripture. Scripture doesn’t support that idea. Scripture never tells you “Make sure you socialize your children with lots of other children.” I challenge you, parents, get your Bible, get a concordance, look it up, do a passage search on this.

Yvette Hampton:           Do a 30 year essay.

Israel Wayne:                Yeah, do your essay. Find from scripture where it tells you “Make sure your children spend lots of time around other children so they can be socially well-rounded.” It doesn’t say that. In fact, it says the opposite. It says “Make sure they spend a lot of time around wise people.” Well, who are wise people? Wise people tend to be older, tend to have the fear of the lord, and it then it talks about not having them sitting in the seat of the scoffer. Well, what’s the social environment again? Is it one that mocks and scoffs at authority? Is it one that undermines parental authority? Well, if that’s the social environment they shouldn’t be in that environment. But then someone says, “So what’s the antidote?” But instead of all that, his delight should be in the law of the lord and on his law, God’s law, he should meditate day and night. How can you meditate day and night when God’s law is not even allowed in a government school?

Yvette Hampton:           That’s right.

Israel Wayne:                We violate the thing that it tells us to do, create an educational context where you can meditate day and night on the law of the lord. We violate that. We violate all the things it tells us not to do, and then we somehow expect that it’s all going to turn out okay. That’s just one passage or scripture where the Bible has spoken really clearly to the issue of education, but people don’t think about it as an education passage because it doesn’t use the word school. So that’s what I do in this book, Education: Does God Have an Opinion, is I just go through dozens and dozens and dozens of passages just like that, and when you really are honest about it and study what the scripture says, it’s forceful that children need an explicitly, exclusively Christian education.

Yvette Hampton:           Yup, that’s right. I couldn’t agree more. Can you take us back a little bit to John Dewey, Horace Mann, those guys who really have kind of influenced what public school is today, because they had an agenda. Talk about that a little bit.

Israel Wayne:                Most people for some reason believe that public schools in America were started by Christians, that they were Christian, that basically they promoted Christian principles, Christian values, up until about maybe the late 1960s when they started to lose their way a little bit, and today they’re not ideal. That’s kind of where most Christians are on it, but most Christians have never really studied the history of government schools. If you go back and you study the Prussian school system, which is the one that our American system was founded on, you find that there was an intentional design on the part of the atheist God-haters to get children away from their parents so that they can indoctrinate them in anti-Christian worldview, and Horace Mann, who was in Massachusetts, he was a Unitarian God-hater, he started the compulsory attendance movement in Massachusetts in the 1850s.

Israel Wayne:                By the year 1900 basically every state in the United States had adopted compulsory attendance laws where you had to attend these government schools. And Dewey’s role was to make sure that there were virtually no options for parents, that they had to have their children in a government tax-funded school, and whatever the government funds it controls. So Dewey started out with some basic Bible reading and prayers being allowed within the classroom, but his goal was over time to slowly remove all of that and just create a kind of secular utopia where everyone would come together under the banner of moral goodness, because as a Unitarian he didn’t believe in a personal God, he denied the doctrine of the trinity. He believed that all people were good, morally good, and that they would all come together and create a utopian society if you just get religion out of the picture.

Israel Wayne:                And John Dewey, who was a teacher of teachers in the 1930s, he really revolutionized the schools, particularly in the 30s. He had gone to Russia, Vladimir Lenin’s wife had invited him there. He met Joseph Stalin’s wife, who was a big fan of his. They wanted him to come, he was the most famous teacher in American, the founder of the NEA, and they said “We want you to come here and teach us everything you know about pedagogy, about teaching method, and we want to teach you how to teach economic socialism in the classroom. In the 1930s they changed the textbooks where they pulled out three subjects that had been taught separately, history, civics, and geography, and replaced those with a Marxist curriculum called Social Studies, that had never been taught before. From the 1930s on there was a strong socialist push within the government school system.

Israel Wayne:                I talk about some of this in this book, Answers for Homeschooling, the Top 25 Questions Critics Ask, this is my latest homeschooling book, and a little bit also in this book, Education: Does God Have an Opinion? For people that don’t know the history of the government school system, you just need to do your homework and there’s other great books out there by Samuel Blumenfeld and John Taylor Gatto. Those two guys were two of the best education historians, they’ve both passed on now, but great resources. And the IndoctriNation film. IndoctriNation: Decline of Christianity in America. Those are all must reads.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great film. We watched that early in our homeschooling journey and it really had a great impact on our lives. And you were part of that documentary as well. Just like you’re a part of Schoolhouse Rocked.

Israel Wayne:                Ah, we’re looking forward to that.

Yvette Hampton:           Oh gosh, us too. Us too. All right. In the last few minutes that we have I want to talk about just some practical things for parents, because we’re kind of talking about the getting started, and this interview with you, we’re kind of talking about the why. Like why homeschool? Why does it even matter that we don’t have our kids in school? Isn’t education just education? Isn’t it all academics? Aren’t they all teaching kids math, writing, this and that? And you and I have talked about this before. As a matter of fact, I think we talked about this on the last podcast, but for those who maybe are new to listening to this podcast, the reason that Garritt and I have been so convicted about educating our kids at home and why it’s so different in teaching them from a Biblical worldview is because not everything … Sorry, I’ve got a notice popping up on my thing here.

Yvette Hampton:           Everything that we teach our kids should point them to Christ. Math can point them to Christ, because God is the God or order. He is the God of absolutes. So, when we see math laid out and we understand how all these numbers and formulas work together we understand the awesomeness of God. When we study science, we understand God as our creator. When we study history from a Biblical worldview, we understand God’s plan for mankind, and so on. So when we take God out of those things, which is precisely what the government schools have done, then we’re really doing a disservice to our children and to their hearts really, because math is not just math, science is not just science, history is not just history. So I really appreciate your take on that. So now that we’ve talked about all that I want to talk about just the practical part of getting started with homeschooling.

Yvette Hampton:           What does a parent do if they’ve got their child in school, especially in a public school? At a private school they’re not going to really question it, but maybe they’ve got their child in a public school, especially if it’s in the middle of the year, and they’re just feeling like the lord is calling them to homeschool. How do they go about doing that? How do we just say “Okay, we’re going to pull our kids out of school now, and golly, with all that’s happening right now in the public school system and all of the parental rights that are being taken away?” We’re seeing parents pulling their kids out left and right. So can you talk to that parent and offer some encouragement to them?

Israel Wayne:                Absolutely. Well, the first thing is, again, this book, Answers for Homeschooling, the Top 25 Questions That Critics Ask, I literally answer almost every question you can imagine about homeschooling. How to get started. How to choose a curriculum. Is it legal? What about socialization? Shouldn’t I have my kids in school to be salt and light? What about different learning styles, different learning teaching methods? I cover all that in this book, Answers for Homeschooling. So you definitely want to get that book, because Mike Smith of HSLDA said something like “This is the Walmart and Costco of homeschool books. It’s everything you need to know about homeschooling in one source.”

Yvette Hampton:           I agree.

Israel Wayne:                But what I would recommend, mentioning Mike Smith, that you become a member of HSLDA, go to their website, hslda.org, because they will provide support for you, make sure that you’re protected legally. They have a host of information on their website. You can get connected to state organizations. You should always be connected with the Christian State Homeschooling Association in your state. There’s a list of those on the HSLDA website. Also there’s a website called homeschoolfreedom.com, and there are state organizations that are mentioned there as well.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, we actually have a link to that on the Schoolhouse Rocked website. If you go to SchoolhouseRocked.com right on the front page there’s a button that says “Homeschooling in your state”, that will take you straight to Homeschool Freedom.

Israel Wayne:                Then from those state associations, when you finally find your state association, almost all the state associations have a homeschool conference, the larger states do at least. You will want to attend a homeschool conference in your state. They have wonderful teaching, lots of great speakers, workshops on almost every possible topic, vendors that take curriculum. You can go and look at the curriculum and see what’s available and ask questions. There are homeschool experts there. There’s community, and from those state associations you can get plugged into local homeschool support groups, local co-ops in your area, so that you’re not just homeschooling in isolation, but you can homeschool with the community around you. I would also recommend going to nheri.orgNational Home Education Research Institute. They area research group with Dr. Brian Ray. They have all kinds of statistics.

Israel Wayne:                I have a lot of that in the Answers for Homeschooling book, because you’re going to have skeptics, right? You’re going to have in-laws, you’re going to have people say “Well, is this a good choice?” And “How are your children going to turn out academically?” I’ve consolidated a lot of the highlights into that book, but there are maybe specific question that people ask you and Dr. Ray has done fabulous research on all that. So having facts is really important, because you’re going to meet people who have opinions, and you’re going to be able to trump their opinions with fact. So that’s part of what I’m doing with the Answers book is trying to give you fact to refute the opinion. But definitely, member of HSLDA, become a member of your state homeschool association, get plugged into a local support group, and check out Answers for Homeschooling, I think it’s a great way to get going. Then there are lots of Facebook discussion groups.

Yvette Hampton:           Which some can be a little dangerous.

Israel Wayne:                Some can be a little bit dangerous, yeah. Again, a lot of the state homeschool associations now are starting their own, and those have some guidance from people that actually know what they’re talking about. So if you find your state association ask them if they have a discussion group, because they’ll kind of make sure that things don’t derail. It’s amazing how many people are maybe not factual, but boy, they have strongly held views. I’m in Michigan and we had somebody recently that said “I’m new to homeschooling. I’m just looking into this. How do I get started? What are the laws about homeschooling in Michigan?” And somebody said “Oh, there are no laws on homeschooling in Michigan.” I’m the vice president of our state homeschool association, so I had to get on there and say “Well, actually there are, and know what they are, because it’s really relevant to your life.” So it’s just amazing how people are really free to share what they think they know, but you really do want to find people that know what they’re talking about, and the state homeschool associations are a great place to do that.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, they really are. We love state organizations and HSLDA both, because you all have worked so beautifully together. HSLDA, Homeschool Legal Defense Association, this is not a commercial for them. They’re not paying us to say this. This is just something that we strongly believe in. But HSLDA and the state organizations are two groups of people that really work hand-in-hand together in order to keep … They’ve worked to make homeschooling legal, because it has not always been legal. They’ve worked to keep homeschooling legal, and then they work to really provide the resources and encouragement that families need in their own individual states. And like you said, knowing what the laws are, knowing what their rights are as parents. So like you said, on our website we’ve got the link to homeschooling in your state, and people can go straight there. They can look at their own state organization, contact them directly and say “Hey, what do we need to do?” HSLDA is the same way.

Yvette Hampton:           They’ve got tons of consultants that will actually walk you through what you need to do for your state. HSLDA has representatives for every state and they will help you figure out what you need to do to legally homeschool in your state, because every state is different. Literally, every state is different. We homeschooled in California, and I was just talking to someone today, I was saying “Ironically, homeschooling in California’s one of the easiest things to do.” It will not always be this way, I’m 100% certain with the direction that California’s going. That’s a different topic, but homeschooling is very easy in California. You don’t really have to do a whole lot of anything. You have to keep attendance and file an affidavit, but other than that it’s much easier than some states that require a lot of … They have all kinds of rules and laws. So, anyway. But yes, that’s a great thing, and your book, we have it and it’s fantastic. I want to talk really quickly. We’re just going to over on this, and I’m not going to worry about it.

Yvette Hampton:           I’m trying so hard to keep these podcasts short, but there’s so much good information here. Really quickly, I want to talk about the last thing, and we’ve touched on this already in this conversation, but what really matters? When parents are thinking of homeschooling, or they’re thinking about continuing to homeschool, is it curriculum that matters, is it keeping the perfect schedule, is it keeping our house clean? What is it that really matters? What is the heart of homeschooling our kids? And we talked about relationships, or course, but I would love for you to talk about this as a homeschool dad, and from the perspective of a dad. How have you gone about discipling the hearts of your children, because obviously discipleship is really what matters. It’s not curriculum. It’s not the perfect pretty schedule. It’s pointing our kids towards Christ. So can you very quickly talk to moms and especially to dads right now, and talk to them about as a dad what really matters and how do you disciple your kids?

Israel Wayne:                I, a lot of times, think of children in our home as sort of the thermometer of the spiritual and relational temperature of our family, and when we see all kinds of bad attitudes and relational conflicts and stress and strife and lack of respect and all of that, we don’t like that, right? We look at it and go “Wow, it’s frigid in here, emotionally, relationally, spiritually.” We don’t like the temperature. But what we don’t think about sometimes is that we as the parents, we’re the thermostat, and if we want to see the temperature in our house, our relationships change, we change that by changing us. I get letters from people all day every day asking me “How can I change my child? How can I change my child? How can I change my child?” Well, the bad news is that the way that God has orchestrated things, usually the path to our child’s heart is through our heart.

Israel Wayne:                You see this in Deuteronomy in chapter six where it says “This law which I give you this day shall be on your heart. Then you teach it diligently to your children.” So, God wants our heart first, and as dads in particular, I think even more than moms, we’re the thermostat for the family. Man, I notice if I come home grumpy and I have brought work home and stress home, and I’ve allowed my day to impact my mood and I bring that into my home and I externalize that on my wife, what happens to my wife? She gets grumpy. And it’s easy to do, but I can’t take it out on my boss. I work for myself, but we’ve all had those scenarios where there’re certain scenarios you just can’t externalize how you really feel there. So there’re certain times that I can’t take it out. So if I bring that home and I’m just negative and I externalize that on my wife, what happens? She feels that stress, she gets negative, and then who does she externalize it to? She externalizes it to the children.

Israel Wayne:                Then who do they externalize it? Well, the younger children, or to each other. Then what do we do? We tell them “Stop acting like that or you get disciplined.” Well, right, well, who did that? We did it, right? We set the temperature. We set the tone. So in terms of the big picture, what we’re going for, is we’re really going for God to conquer all of our hearts, and being home in an environment where we’re together, we’re working together for a common goal, a common purpose, we’re a team, we learn things in that process of teamwork of you have to have leaders, you have to have followers, just like any team, but we learn things in that process that make us more like Christ, cause us to press through the difficult things into the deeper relationships.

Israel Wayne:                And if we avoid that, if just avoid each other, yeah, we’re avoiding conflict, but we’re also avoiding relationship. So, I just think that God created this concept called family and in America we’ve done everything that we can to get away from it. We just try to avoid each other, because we think that that’ll lessen conflict. And it does, it lessens conflict, but it also ruins relationship. So, I really believe that God is a relational God, he wants us to know him, he wants us to be in a relationship with him, but he also wants us to enter into and take the risk of relationship with each other. When the family works, homeschooling works. When the family’s not working, homeschooling’s chaos.

Israel Wayne:                So you can change curriculum, you can find a better math program, you can fix the academics, that’s not hard. That’s really, really doable. The relationships are where you have to focus, and if the relationships are in order and everything’s working, you’re going to find the homeschooling process goes relatively easy. It’s not easy, but relatively easy if the family’s working. But, man, when you got people that hate each other or they’re at each other’s throats, it’s grueling. So you’ve got to fix that, and that’s why our ministry’s called Family Renewal, and we encourage you visit our website at FamilyRenewal.org, because that’s what we’re about, we’re about family discipleship and about those relationships.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah, I love it. You’ve got a great ministry, and you will be speaking, we mentioned this in part one, you’re going to be speaking for the Homegrown Generation Family Expo that’s coming up February 17th through the 21st, and you’re going to be speaking specifically on this topic of family relationships. The day, the 19th, that you’ll be speaking, that whole day is going to be about family relationships. We’re opening it up that day with Kirk Cameron, and he’s going to be talking about marriage. It’s going to be followed by Ginger Hubbard talking about discipling the heart of your child, or Reaching the Heart of Your Child I think is actually the title of her session, and then Durenda Wilson is going to be talking about sibling relationships. And you’re going to kind of tie it all together that day, as well as on the panel.

Yvette Hampton:           We’ve got a panel at the end of that day with all three of you just to answer some questions from those who will be part of the event. So if you guys have not yet signed up for the Homegrown Generation Family Expo, please do so. It’s only $20. You get the live event, it’ll be streamed live through Facebook and through the Homegrown Generation website. Then you’ll have lifetime access to be able to watch any of the sessions that you would like to watch at any time, and lots of free stuff. So we’ve got free virtual swag bags and lots of contest giveaways and things like that. It’s going to be a really fun event, but we are really excited to have you as part of that, and really just encouraged by your message, Israel, and the ministry that God had put on your heart. So, we’re excited to bring you back into the Expo to talk more about that with people, and then be able to interact with the people who are watching live.

Israel Wayne:                Yeah, it’ll be fun.

Yvette Hampton:           It’s going to be a lot of fun. So HomegrownGeneration.com. You can register on there. Israel, thank you again for your time. Thank you for your wisdom, and just for all you do for the homeschool community and for families. You are a huge blessing.

Israel Wayne:                Well, we appreciate you guys and we’re excited about your ministry.

Yvette Hampton:           Thank you.

Israel Wayne:                We look forward to the conference. So again, everybody make sure you register and join the fun.

Check out Israel’s Books:

Answers for Homeschooling: Top 25 Questions Critics Ask, by Israel Wayne

Education: Does God Have an Opinion?, by Israel Wayne

Pitchin’ A Fit!: Overcoming Angry and Stressed-Out Parenting, by Israel and Brook Wayne

Recommended Resources:

Israel Wayne, Christian Education: A Manifesto 

The Gen2 Survey, by NHERI (National Home Education Research Institute) – This study examines adults who attended church growing up and seeks to understand the key influences which either encouraged or deterred them from believing and practicing the faith of their parents.

HSLDA – Home School Legal Defense Association

NHERI (National Home Education Research Institute)

State Homeschool Organizations 

Nehemiah Institute 

Scripture References:

Psalm 1

Proverbs 13:20

Proverbs 22:15

1 Corinthians 15:33

1 Peter 2:14

Homeschooling Children with Special Needs

“I had a friend who was homeschooling, and she was joking with me and saying, ‘You’re homeschooling, you’re a homeschooler. Just wait and see, you’re going to homeschool.’ And I said, ‘No, no, no.’ I didn’t want to homeschool. That wasn’t on my radar at all. But God just really started working in my heart too, that I wanted to be the one to disciple my children and raise them up in the Lord.”- Faith Berens

Faith Berens is a special needs education consultant with the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA). As a special needs consultant for HSLDA, Faith helps families find educational solutions for their children’s learning challenges and disabilities. She has worked as a classroom teacher, in both public and private schools, a Reading Recovery® teacher, an NILD educational therapist, and as a private tutor. Faith specializes in child literacy and has a master’s degree in reading from Shenandoah University. She draws on her extensive experience with learning difficulties including her own struggle with dyscalculia and homeschooling her own children with unique learning challenges to help homeschool students facing their own learning struggles. Her areas of expertise are early childhood literacy, reading assessment, and the identification and remediation of reading difficulties and disabilities.

Yvette Hampton:           For those of you who are not familiar with HSLDA, maybe you’re just jumping onto this whole homeschooling train and you’re trying to figure out what it is, HSLDA is the Home School Legal Defense Association. They are a fantastic organization that really protects our rights as homeschoolers. They’ve been around for quite some time now, about 30 years, right, Faith?

Faith Berens:                35 actually.

Yvette:                         35 years! I knew that there was just an anniversary last year and I couldn’t remember if it was 30 or 35. For the past 35 years they have been fighting for the rights for us to be able to homeschool our children. Faith is one of their special needs consultants, and I’m excited to have her on the show. So welcome to the show.

Listen to Faith on The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (8/27/2019 episode)

Faith:                            Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be a part of this ministry and what you’re doing. It’s really awesome to be your guest today.

Yvette:                         Yeah. Thank you so much. Tell us about you and your family and your background.

Faith:                            Sure. I’m a homeschooling mom of two. I have a 16-year-old daughter. She’ll be 17 soon, and she has her learner’s permit. She’ll be getting her driver’s license soon, so everybody can pray for me. And then my son is nine, so we have two, and my mom lives with us, so she helps with our homeschooling and we live here in northern Virginia in Fauquier County, and have been homeschooling for 12 plus years.

Yvette:                         Wow. I Love Northern Virginia. It’s one of my favorite parts of the country. We went several years ago, and I remember driving through the Shenandoah Valley. It’s so beautiful. I felt like we were driving through a picture. I think it was October and it was just breathtaking. You live in a very, very beautiful part of the country. I’m from the desert in California, so it’s quite different than what I grew up with.

So, we want to talk today about special needs. Several months ago we talked a little bit about special needs on The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, so I wanted to have you on because I know that this is a huge concern for a lot of moms, especially for moms who are just starting to think about homeschooling or maybe they are feeling like God is prompting them towards homeschooling, but they think, “I’ve got a special needs student,” and I know that we’ll talk about kind of the whole range of what special needs is, but they think “I’ve got a special needs student and so I can’t.” Oftentimes I think that’s because their doctor or their school counselor or their child’s preschool teacher or kindergarten teacher says, “Oh, well, they need to be in this specific program.” And so as parents we think, “Well, we want what’s best for our kids. And, of course, this is what’s best for them. So, we must put them in this special program.” So, I would love for you to, first, tell your story. Tell us about how you got involved with special needs and homeschooling.

“I always had a heart for my students that were struggling.”

Faith:                            Sure. Well, it’s kind of a long and winding story, but God doesn’t waste anything. So, I was always a struggling student myself and I have what’s called dyscalculia, which is the math learning disability. And I usually tell parents they can think of that as the math version of dyslexia. So I struggled all through school, but with the help of my mom and getting tutors and accommodations in place, I did fine with that kind of support. I’m a product of public school unfortunately, but went off to college and that’s really where I got the official diagnosis of dyscalculia, and again with accommodations and support was able to do really well, and then went on to get a master’s degree. So I mean, God doesn’t waste anything.

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I always had a heart for my students that were struggling. I ended up majoring in education and then became a reading specialist, and it felt like God put me in public school and private school. That was my ministry. But then when my own children came along, I sent my daughter off to kindergarten half-day, and I was the reading specialist at the school where she was. And she was very high in reading and had a lot of struggles in math as well. She had some attention, focus issues, and some low frustration tolerance, things going on. And naturally in the afternoon I was working with her and supplementing what she was getting at school and loving being home with her. God laid it on my heart to want to be home and to have another child, and I wanted to be my kids’ teacher.

And so, I had a friend who was homeschooling, and she was joking with me and saying, “You’re homeschooling, you’re a homeschooler. Just wait and see, you’re going to homeschool. And I said, “No, no, no.” I didn’t want to homeschool. That wasn’t on my radar at all. But God just really started working in my heart too, that I wanted to be the one to disciple my children and raise them up in the Lord. And that education was about a lot more than just academics. So naturally we made the shift. I left public school and my husband said, “Well, if you can find a job working in your field and making x amount of money part time and work from home,” I still needed to work part-time. And we started praying and I just felt, “What am I going to do?

I’m a trained teacher. What else am I going to do?” How am I going to find a work from job part-time in my niche, which is reading specialist in dyslexia, but serving homeschoolers or private school students and get out of public school. And I just started praying, God, get me out of Egypt and random laundry list. And within six months, God worked it out. There was a job at HSLDA. I didn’t even seek it. It fell in my lap. He opened so many doors. He’s so faithful. So I like to share that story with other parents that think, “How am I going to homeschool? First of all, I don’t know what to do” or I don’t have any training, I don’t have any background” or “I don’t think I’m going to have support. I don’t even know where to start.”

But you know, God orchestrates things and He doesn’t waste any of our experiences and He will provide a way and the resources, and His timing is perfect.

Yvette:                         Yes, I love that. Talk about some of the special needs that parents face today, and then talk about some of the benefits that there are to homeschooling those kids.

Faith:                            Sure. We see a huge gamut, anywhere from gifted students, to gifted with learning disabilities, though they’re referred to as twice exceptional. So they might have a learning disability or a processing problem on top of being gifted. Dyslexia is huge. I mean about one in five people, it depends on what stat you read, it can be one in five to one in 10 people, are impacted with dyslexia. And then of course autism has skyrocketed. And so those are the big groups. More and more families are pulling kids out of school to homeschool because of special needs, specifically autism and dyslexia.

“We always tell parents that homeschooling really is an individualized education program. And that’s what it is, due to its very nature. So parents are uniquely gifted. They know their children better than anybody. They love them more than anyone else. They want to see them succeed. You’re going to have much lower teacher-to-student ratios in the home setting. When you compare that with even the very best special needs resource room, with a trained teacher, their case loads are one and 15.”

We get a lot of phone calls and a lot of emails for those two subgroups, but it can be anywhere from anything, from just attention to processing problems to anxiety. We’re seeing a lot more children that are struggling with mental health issues, bullying. And so sometimes parents will call and say, “I don’t know if I’m really, if my child’s really special needs or not.” And I mean, I just kind of say, “You know, we all have special meetings, we’re all unique, we’re all special, and we all have specific needs.” So whether it’s just a slight struggle or attention issues or severe medical needs anywhere, it’s just a huge spectrum.

Yvette:                         So then talk about the benefits of bringing those children home or keeping them home if you’ve not yet started school with them.

“I mean, in our public schools, kids are falling through the cracks.”

Faith:                            Right. Well, we always tell parents that homeschooling really is an individualized education program. And that’s what it is, due to its very nature. So parents are uniquely gifted. They know their children better than anybody. They love them more than anyone else. They want to see them succeed. You’re going to have much lower teacher-to-student ratios in the home setting. When you compare that with even the very best special needs resource room, with a trained teacher, their case loads are one and 15. It’s individualized. You’ve got a low teacher-student ratio. You’re able to customize instruction for them, gear your pacing, student needs, frequent breaks, you can schedule around their sleep needs, medication needs, therapy. And it’s just truly a better scenario than what they’re going to get in a school setting because the schools can only do so much. They’re understaffed. And even though we’ve thrown billions of dollars at education and special education, the national report card for rating progress is terrible.

I mean, in our public schools, kids are falling through the cracks, and I’m not slamming public school teachers. I have friends that are believers that are there and they’re serving and they’re doing the best they can. But oftentimes their hands are tied and they’re understaffed and don’t have the resources they need. So parents are uniquely able to do this. They don’t need special training. They need to just love and encourage their kids and meet them where they are. And that’s the other beauty of homeschooling is we can truly meet our kids where they are developmentally. Reading develops on a continuum. So does math skills, and we can meet them where they are right in that zone of proximal development where it’s not too hard and it’s not too easy. And sometimes kids are reading at one level and math is on a different level. So it’s really a beautiful thing and it works really well. And there’s research to show that it’s working well for students with special needs. So parents don’t need to fear and they don’t need to cave into those when the questions come.

Yvette:                         Probably the biggest reason that parents who have children with special needs choose not to homeschool is out of fear. And you said something earlier that I think is so important to remember is that we know our kids better than anyone and we love them more than anyone. We talk a lot about that on the podcast. There are some excellent teachers out there, but they don’t know your children the way that you know them. They don’t know their … you talked about their sleep patterns and their medications and their different therapies that they may have to go to, and their teachers in a classroom, they cannot cater to those things like mom and dad can. And so it’s such a beautiful opportunity for mom to be able to come alongside her child and really help them develop in the way that God has created them because God’s made your child the way that they are for a purpose.

And it’s not my mistake that you are their mom or that you are their dad. And so for those parents who are very fearful of keeping their kids at home to homeschool, then because again, like we said in the beginning, they’ve been told by their doctors and everyone else that they need to be in these special programs. How would you encourage those parents to get started? What do they do to get started with helping their children?

Faith:                            So, I mean obviously one of the first things I would encourage them, it would be to join HSLDA because oftentimes families will encounter some difficulties and pushbacks when there’s a child with special needs, typically from a well-meaning medical provider or a psychologist or a neighbor or something.

Yvette:                         Right. And that can be scary.

Faith:                            Yeah, it can be. But a lot of times people will question and oftentimes, quite frankly due to ignorance, they don’t understand homeschooling, they don’t understand the homeschooling law or just misinformation. So I would tell them to join, and I would also help arm them with resources. If you’re just getting started schooling a child with special needs, or let’s say you’re pulling out of public school and closing an IEP, then navigate that process well. We help them to do that, how do they withdraw and close the IEP.

Yvette:                         Now explain what an IEP is.

“A lot of times parents are fearful because they think “I’m not trained,” or “I don’t have any special background.”, but they are the expert when it comes to their child, so we’re arming them with some good resources. If you have a child with dyslexia, then we’re going to point you to resources and books and services for dyslexia or autism because knowledge is power and we battle fear by prayer and trusting in God…”

Faith:                            So, an IEP is drafted by schools. It’s an individualized education plan. Sometimes students will have what’s called a 504 accommodation plan, but basically it’s just a contract between the school and the parent, and it lays out this is the instruction we’re going to provide or the intervention services or therapies, the frequency of those services where they will occur. Is it in a regular classroom? Is it in a resource room? Is it in a therapy room? Something like that.

And then they’ll have goals. They’ll have long-term goals and short term goals for the student to meet. Most often those are academic. Sometimes they’re social goals, social skills and goals on there as well, or fine motor and gross motor. But typically they’re mostly academicals. But if parents have had their child in public school and they’ve had an IEP, we’ll help them navigate how to close that. Should they close it? Do they maybe want to homeschool, but then also get some services through the school district. That’s a parental option and a choice. HSLDA’s stances is private services are best if at all possible.

But some parents will choose to keep therapeutic or what’s called “related services”, so we’ll help them to transition then to what’s called a service plan. If they opt to do that. But many, many parents by and large just choose to homeschool and not get those services and not have an official IEP drafted by the school because again, homeschooling is an individualized educational plan.

A lot of times parents are fearful because they think “I’m not trained,” or “I don’t have any special background.”, but they are the expert when it comes to their child, so we’re arming them with some good resources. If you have a child with dyslexia, then we’re going to point you to resources and books and services for dyslexia or autism because knowledge is power and we battle fear by prayer and trusting in God and learning, and “what does God say about me and about my child?” A lot of times in my work with HSLDA, I’ll get the privilege to get to pray with parents and help them to press through their fear and overcome the obstacles that are in their way, that’s causing the fear. And sometimes it’s funding. “Hey, my child needs therapy and we’re broke.” Homeschooling is a financial sacrifice anyway, and when you throw special needs on top of it and medications or therapy or we need this adaptive equipment assistive technology, then we’ll help them with funding sources, too.

Yvette:                         Which is great because I know that that’s really enticing for a lot of families that maybe they do want to bring their kids home and they want to school them at home, but they can’t afford the resources that are out there provided by the government. But once you give them over to the government to be able to provide those resources, you’re giving up control. You’re saying, “Okay, now they’re yours. You control what they do, what they’re learning and how they’re progressing,” and again, I mean I know that there are some fantastic teachers out there and therapists and those people who are helping these special needs children, but you’re still giving them control to those people.

You mentioned resources. Can you talk specifically about that? What are some of the resources, maybe some books and different resources that you can suggest to parents?

Faith:                            Sure. One of my favorites is Homeschooling Children with Special Needs, by Sharon Hensley. It’s an oldie but a goodie, and I always tell parents if you’re going to be homeschooling a child with special needs you, this is one book you have to have. It’s very encouraging but very practical, and chock full of resources.

Yvette:                         Okay.

Listen to Zan Tyler on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast

Faith:                            That would be first. I also really encourage families to get Zan Tyler’s book The Seven Tools for Cultivating Your Child’s Potential.

Faith:                            It’s also really encouraging and practical. And then Cheryl Swope, if you’re familiar with her, with Memoria Press, she has a book called A Beautiful Education for Any Childand Cheryl has homeschooled her daughter who’s on the autism spectrum, but also Sharon Hensley’s daughter is on the autism spectrum. They’re both homeschooling moms. So those would be some practical resources to help and for encouragement.

Yvette:                         Okay. What else is there? Because I know for myself, and especially if we’re talking to a mom who is, maybe she’s got several kids and one or more of her children have special needs and she’s exhausted, and the thought of picking up three big books that are going to be fantastic for her to read through and dig into is just a little bit overwhelming. I know that you’re there and that’s part of your job at HSLDA is to, like you said before, come alongside those parents and encourage them and help walk them through, and that’s what you do in your position, correct? And let me ask you this. As a member of HSLDA, if someone’s a member, do they have access to you to be able to do that at any time or is that an extra service that they have to pay for? How does that work?

Faith:                            Right, so HSLDA has a small membership fee. It’s annual and that gives people access 24/7 to the attorneys. But it also gives them access to any of the educational consultants. We have toddlers to tweens, consultants for early years and high school, and then the special needs ladies. And so people can email or call. It’s not an extra fee, it’s included.

Yvette:                         Great.

Faith:                            Some of the other services they get are free transcript review or in our department, the special needs consultants … let’s say a family gets their child assessed. They get diagnostic testing done by a psychologist or diagnosing professional, and they get this lovely report and a label or a diagnosis and scores, but oftentimes, it’s not practical in terms of now what do I do, what curriculum do I use, how do I teach this child? And so that’s another thing that we’ll do is review reports for families and help to make recommendations and curricula suggestions that’s specific to their child.

Yvette:                         Which is fantastic because how many other places can you go and get that and have people be able to help you figure out what specifically you need for your child?

Faith:                            And they’d have to pay, you’d have to pay a private educational consultant to help with that. And then we do have a database of private homeschool-friendly professionals from across the nation. They’ve all come recommended to us by other homeschooling families and they’ve all been vetted and screened, and so members can access that. So let’s say they need to find somebody that does ABA therapy for a child with autism. They can search the database by their ZIP code and know what type of professional or service that they’re looking for. Or maybe it’s just a math tutor, so that continues to grow. We’ve built that over the last 20 years and it continues to grow.

So that’s another thing that we offer, ways to support families, but you know there are more and more organizations, and their state homeschool associations usually have somebody on staff that’s the special needs point person. More and more state organizations are having support groups specifically for special needs or special conferences. Florida does one, FPEA, they do a special needs conference. Midwest Parent Home Educators, they do one.

Yvette:                         Okay.

Faith:                            So, more and more state orgs are starting those. And then you may not be familiar with Peggy Ployhar.

Yvette:                         I am, yes. Yeah, we actually interviewed her for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. It’s been several months, but It was a great show. She does SPED Homeschool.

Faith:                            Yes, SPED Homeschool. And so that’s great. You know parents can find online support, be it a Facebook support group like homeschooling with dyslexia or homeschooling kids with Down’s syndrome. So your online support groups are great, but obviously it’s best if you can have somebody that, “Let’s have coffee or should I come over and help me?”

And we can talk to people on the phone and help by email. But I always tell parents if you can definitely count on us, but there’s nothing like having somebody there face-to-face close by to walk the journey with you. That’s why it’s just so important for there to be support groups for parents who are homeschooling and specifically for special needs.

Yvette:                         Yes, I know that it can be a very lonely place to be, especially if you … a lot of people are parts of different communities and co-ops and things like that with homeschooling, and if you have a child who has, especially if you have one that has very severe special needs, it can be very difficult to find your place in those different groups and co-ops and, and so I know that it’s so important, and I know Peggy Player talks about this, about finding your tribe. Find other people who you can connect with, and hopefully someone like you said that you can and have coffee with in a coffee shop or be able to just meet up with in person.

But that’s not always possible. And so having other online groups and people that you can actually connect with, even if they don’t live close by, is just as important. But I will say also, and this goes for everything, even with co-ops, oftentimes people will say, “Well, there is nothing in my area that offers assistance or companionship for somebody who’s in my situation.” Well, start one, maybe. Maybe God is calling you to start that for your area because I can almost guarantee there’s someone else out there in your area who’s in the same boat as you, and you just need to be introduced to one another.

And so sometimes it’s just putting yourself out there and saying, “Hey, I have a special needs child. Does anyone else out here have one? Let’s talk. Let’s get together. Let’s get our kids together.” And that can form such beautiful relationships between parents, and I think that that’s really important. We have just a couple of more minutes left, and so I want to do two last things really quickly. Can you talk very quickly about how to accommodate special needs students at home? And then I would love for you to just give an encouragement to parents. So how would, how can you best accommodate them?

Faith:                            Sure. I mean, you can do things like frequent breaks and let them move while they’re learning. Learning doesn’t have to be in a table. I always tell parents, for kids with dysgraphia, they can do oral narration or dictation and you can act as scribe, or you can use assistive of technology like Dragon Dictate or Co-Writer. We have lists of assistive technology and software tools that we’ll share with parents. Sometimes it’s as simple as, rather than having the child work in the workbook, we’re just going to pull out a few problems. We’re not going to do the whole worksheet or I’m going to cut the worksheet in half. We’re going to do it on a white board or taking a big notebook and turning it sideways and giving them the paper or the page that they’re writing on. So it’s more of a slant board surface. Don’t be afraid to cut up your workbooks. Make them into something else. Flip books or sorting the pictures in the workbook instead of phonics workbook page, for instance, where the child looks at the picture and has to write the first sound or the middle sound or the end sound. And if writing’s hard, then cut out the pictures and have them sort them on a mat by the sound and glue them down or something like that.

So, we can modify materials, we can modify the expectations, the pace of the lesson, and give them assistive technology. Audio books is a great way to help students take in content and also help them be independent so mom and dad aren’t reading everything to them. Those are some, or having them circle answers or indicate answers and then the parent can bubble in if it’s a bubble sheet for standardized testing.

Yvette:                         So many great ideas! It sounds like you have a whole bucket full of ways that you can help parents figure out how to bring their kids home and school them. What would be your one last encouragement to parents who have children with special needs?

Faith:                            Well, don’t go it alone. Like you said, try to find support. Tap into national charitable organizations, and like you said, put yourself out there. Know that you’re not alone. You might feel alone, but I just want to encourage you that you’re not. All of us as homeschool moms, we all have bad days and we all struggle. And there are days where there’s tears, whether it’s our kids or it’s us, right? Now we have, we have great days, too. And that homeschooling really truly is an individualized plan of education. And it can really be an excellent line. So you may feel alone, but you’re not. And we’re here to help you. And I would love to help.

Yvette:                         That is fantastic. And like we say all the time on the podcast, God will give you everything that you need to accomplish what He’s called you to. So, if He’s calling you to keep your kids at home, He’s going to equip you with everything that you need in order to do it well. So where can people find out more about you?

Faith:                            They can go to HSLDA’s websiteand we have a quick navigation tab. It’s teaching my kids and if they click on that, they’ll see high school, early years, then a struggling learner page. So HSLDA.org, Teaching My Kids tab, or they can go to our Facebook page, HSLDA’s Educational Consultants. If you want to find me personally on Facebook, you can find me at Faith-Filled Homeschooling. SPED Homeschool, too, because now I’m serving on the board with Peggy.

Yvette:                         That is so great. That’s such a beautiful organization, and I love that so many of you are coming together and just linking arms to help parents across the world with special needs children. So thank you so much, Faith, for what you do. Thank you for your dedication to encouraging parents and to helping them just stay the course of homeschooling because it’s such an important and beautiful thing. So we appreciate all that you do and we appreciate all that HSLDA does. So, thank you for your time today and for speaking with me.

Ready to take your children back? Stream Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution for free tonight and learn how. After you have watched the movie, download the Free Homeschool Survival Kit. This free 70+ page resource will give you the encouragement and tools you need to start strong and finish well.

Recommended Resources:

Homeschooling Children with Special Needs, by Sharon Hensley

7 Tools for Cultivating Your Child’s Potential, by Zan Tyler

A Beautiful Education for any Child, by Cheryl Swope

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner, by Kathy Kuhl

Encouraging your Child, by Kathy Kuhl

HSLDA membership

SPED Homeschool

Listen to more on this topic from Peggy Ployhar of SPED Homeschool

Connect with Faith:

HSDLA Education Consultants Facebook Page

Faith Filled homeschooling

Photo by Anna Kolosyuk on Unsplash

Photo by Samuel Zeller on Unsplash

The Fight for Homeschool Freedom

“We have got to educate people, as to what freedom and liberty is all about, what the constitution is all about, parental rights, and who our kids belong to. That’s very elementary. Socialism and Marxism would have us believe our kids belong to the government.” – Zan Tyler

While we were at the Firmly Planted Homeschool Resource Center, in Vancouver, Washington to finish filming interviews for Schoolhouse Rocked, homeschool pioneer, Zan Tyler stopped by for a surprise visit. Zan was instrumental in the fight to make homeschooling legal in South Carolina, in the early 1980s. She was in Oregon to speak at the Oregon Christian Home Education Association Network (OCEANetwork) homeschool conference, in Albany, Oregon and wanted to visit Heidi St. John and get a tour of the homeschool resource center. Because her story of the legal battles and persecution that she endured to pave the way for homeschooling families in her state provided such important historical perspective and cautionary advice, we didn’t want to miss the opportunity to interview her for the movie and for the podcast.

Zan Tyler (right), Heidi St. John (center, and Yvette Hampton at the Firmly Planted Homeschool Resource Center

Following her dramatic battle for the right to homeschool her children, Zan went on to teach them through graduation and all three of them attended college on a variety of scholarships. Gaining resolve during her battle, she went on to fight for other homeschooling families in South Carolina and across the United States, founding the South Carolina Association of Independent Home Schools in 1990, Speaking at homeschool conventions around the world, and writing several books, including Seven Tools for Cultivating Your Child’s Potential and the forward for Heidi St. John’s Busy Homeschool Mom’s Guide to Daylight: Managing Your Days Through the Homeschool Years. She has also worked to develop Bible-bases homeschool resources as the director of Apologia Press. Here is her story.

Yvette Hampton:           Hey everyone, this is Yvette, and we are back with the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. This is a really fun one, because we are actually on the set filming for Schoolhouse Rocked the movie. It’s so neat to see how the Lord provides just different guests and people for the movie and for the podcast as well.

You are going to love my guest today, her name is Zan Tyler. She is just a sweet, sweet homeschool mom whose kids are grown now. She has an amazing story and I know you are going to be so encouraged by what God has done in her family and through her family, for the homeschool world.

Listen to Zan Tyler on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast (7-30-2019 episode)

So Zan, welcome. I am really excited to talk to you today!

Zan:                              Oh, thank you, Yvette. It’s great to be here.

Yvette:                         Thank you. Tell us a little bit about you and your family.

Zan:                              Well, we have three grown kids, six grandchildren, and we homeschooled for 21 years, from 1984 to 2005, and homeschooled each of the kids from kindergarten through high school.

Yvette:                         So that was back in the day.

Zan:                              That was back in the day for sure.

Yvette:                         You are truly considered, in the homeschool world, one of the pioneers, who really got homeschooling kind of off the ground, and you are very instrumental in homeschooling becoming legal. Not just your state of South Carolina, but in many states, in addition to that. So, let’s talk about that, because there’s so much to tell in your story. Tell us, kind of from the beginning, how this whole story unfolded for you.

“When she said the word homeschool, I just felt like the walls of her little home at Columbia Bible College were closing in on me. I thought, ‘Lord, if you will just get me out of here, I never want to hear the word homeschool again.’ I just thought it was the strangest thing I had ever heard. Our family was extroverts, and I just couldn’t imagine.”

Zan:                              Well, it was 1984, which I just always think is so George Orwellian, and my oldest son was in kindergarten. He was very bright and gifted, but not reading. He was the only one in this little kindergarten of eight that wasn’t reading. So I was looking for answers, because I had no educational background. I wasn’t sure if it was a problem, or what he was going through.

A friend of mine recommended that we hold him back a year. That was normal for boys, they needed a little more time to mature. But another friend of mine, she and her husband were getting their masters degrees at Columbia Bible College, getting ready to go to the mission field said, “Zan, I taught in the public schools for many years before I had Nat and I’m going to homeschool, and I think you should homeschool Ty.”

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You know the scene from Star Wars, where the walls – it’s really a trash compactor – and they start closing in? When she said the word homeschool, I just felt like the walls of her little home at Columbia Bible College were closing in on me. I thought, “Lord, if you will just get me out of here, I never want to hear the word homeschool again.” I just thought it was the strangest thing I had ever heard. Our family was extroverts, and I just couldn’t imagine.

But she gave me a book, Homegrown Kids by Dr. Moore. I took home that book, and all the way home I’m telling the Lord, “Well, I’m never going to homeschool.” I get home and I start reading that book, more as a courtesy from my friend than anything else, and it was like the Holy Spirit was just wooing me, and softening my heart, and showing me what a glorious way to educate homeschooling really is.

Watch Zan Tyler’s full interview for Schoolhouse Rocked at our Backstage Pass members website.

The only problem was, this was 1984, and we didn’t know one person in the world who homeschooled. There were no organizations, no HSLDA. I think it had actually started on the West Coast, but we certainly didn’t know of them on the East Coast. No state organizations, no support groups, no, nobody. So I really had nobody to turn to.

I used to walk in the morning early and pray and listen to the Bible on my Walkman, and I really just felt like the Lord was saying, “Okay, I really want you to homeschool your boys.” I just remember saying, “No, I just can’t do this.” So I ran inside. We went to the public school district in our area, I showed them the testing that Ty should be held back a year, even though he was six, and they said, “Okay.” That was that, and I thought that was the end of the story.

Until others, people in the school district, were getting their orientation packets for kindergarten and I didn’t get one. I called the school superintendent, he said, “You can’t put your first grader in our kindergarten program. We’ve put him in first grade.” I said, “Well, private schools are filled at this point, I have no choice.” He said, “Well, I’m sorry, you cannot do this.”

So, I called my old high school principal, who is now associate superintendent of instruction in the district, and just asked him to write a note to hold Ty back. He said, “Well, Zan, I just can’t do that.” Which, they did those kinds of things all the time. I said, “Well, I guess I’m just going to have to homeschool Ty.” It was a threat, it was my trump card. He said, “Oh, the school district’s gotten so lenient with that kind of thing.”

Later I found out they had approved one person in the history of the district, and she was a certified teacher. I had been an economics major in college. I had planned to go to law school, until Joe proposed and we got married and had children instead. I mean, I did not have the educational background they were looking for. So we had to hire an attorney just to find out what the law was. The local school district, nor the State Department of Education, would give us the law. There’s no internet, no Google, no organizations, no other way to find it out.

So, we hired him, we submitted our application. It’s about, oh, I mean, it was about five inches thick, everything they wanted from me at that point, and they denied my application. So we had to call our attorney again. He said, “Oh, now you appeal to the state board. They will deny you, they will uphold whatever the local school board did.” I said, “What then?” He said, “You’ll end up in family court.” I said, “What then?” He said, “Well, I don’t know, honey.”

“He looked at me and he said, ‘Well, if you continue down this path, Zan, I’ll have you put in jail for truancy.’ So, that was sort of the watershed moment for me. I said, ‘Well, then you’ll just have to put me in jail.'”

Zan Tyler, a homeschooling pioneer

So, I’m telling the Lord, “I told you this was not a good idea.” So, in the middle of all of this, I had a thought. The State Superintendent of Education had actually observed my mother’s classroom. She was a fourth grade teacher when he was getting his PhD. I was in the fourth grade, so I saw him every day after school for several months. I called Dr. Williams, said, “Dr. Williams, this is Zan Tyler. I’m Sybil Peter’s daughter. I have a problem, can I come see you?”

So, I went up there, and just explained my predicament, all I wanted to do is hold Ty back a year. The school district said, yes, then they said no. Private schools were filled, and they denied my application to homeschool. What am I going to do? He looked at me and he said, “Well, if you continue down this path, Zan, I’ll have you put in jail for truancy.” So, that was sort of the watershed moment for me. I said, “Well, then you’ll just have to put me in jail.”

Yvette:                         Which at that point, I would say most parents would probably just say, “Okay.” They would throw their hands up, give up and say, “All right.”

Zan:                              You know, I think that was just when the Lord took over for me. There’s the verse in Acts that says, “Don’t fear when you’re brought before governors, because I’ll tell you what to say.” It was really an out of body experience, because I said, “Then Dr. Williams, you’ll have to put me in jail.” I’m thinking, “Who just said that?” It was really like an out of body experience. But I knew the Lord had been calling me, and in that moment he, I don’t know exactly how to explain it, but he confirmed that to me.

Yvette:                         It’s so neat to have just a piece of God when he asks us to do everything. We’ve talked a whole lot about this on the podcast, is that when God calls you to something, he’s going to provide everything that you need, and he is going to pave the way for you. Whether it’s homeschooling, or, you know, a new job, or a move across the country. Whatever it is, he’s going to provide the way, and he’s going to pave that road.

So I love that you were just obedient and you were willing to listen to what God was telling you, because you have, now since then, impacted so many families. So, continue on. Well, let me ask you this first. How did your husband, Joe, how did he respond to this whole idea of homeschooling? Was he all in favor of it? Was he a little resistant? What was his response?

Zan:                              Well, I’ll tell you now that Joe does a workshop called, You Want to What? Confessions of a Reluctant Homeschool Dad. So, we’ve always had a great marriage. Joe’s a great communicator, and so we could always talk. Basically what he said to me was, “I know how much you love the Lord, and I know how much you love the kids. So I totally trust you, but I think this is the craziest thing we’ve ever done.”

He finally said, “Well, if it’s numbers and colors, you can’t mess up a kid too much in kindergarten.” Then we laughed, because low and behold Ty was color blind, and we didn’t know it yet. I mean, he was very supportive of me, he just thought the idea of homeschooling was nuts.

Yvette:                         So what was his response when you started to get into a little bit of legal trouble?

Zan:                              You know, then we were just all in it together.

Yvette:                         Which is how it should be.

Zan:                              Yes, yes. So, he tons of pizza. I should say this, no man should have to eat as much pizza during those early years of homeschooling as Joe did.

Yvette:                         Yep. You are one busy mama.

Zan:                              Yeah.

Yvette:                         So, how did the rest of the story transpire from there?

Zan:                              Well, it was interesting, because being the brave noble person I was, we had decided not to tell either set of parents we were going to homeschool. Joe said, “You know, you’re going to have to tell them at some point, it’s kind of like being pregnant. People will recognize, at some point, that something is going on.” I said, “Well, when the time comes, I’ll talk about it.” I just had no more emotional bandwidth.

So, when I was threatened with jail, then that forced the conversation, because my parents were very involved in the whole fabric of Columbia. Not social life, but just community life. Dad was, in addition to his profession and being a lawyer, he was chairman of the board of the Baptist hospital system. I knew that the newspapers would not say, “P on homeschool mothers and Tyler goes to jail.” It would say, “John Peter’s daughter goes to jail.”

I knew I needed to tell them. So, I go by to tell them, and I hold it together, “Mom, dad, I’m going to homeschool Ty.” Of course, they don’t know what it is, I barely know what it is. “I’ve been threatened with jail, and my hearing is on Tuesday. I didn’t want you to read about it in the newspaper.” Then I just lost it. I was hysterical, and I left. My daddy, we’ve always been so close, he just went to be with the Lord. But he was just so mad I had been treated that way.

As God, in his very kind of providence would have it, he was speaking at a hospital function the next night with Nancy Thurman, who was the wife of Senator Strom Thurmond, who was a legend in South Carolina politics, served in the Senate for 50 or so years. I had worked for him when I was in high school. It was the first year of the 18 year old vote, and I was female to boot. So I did television commercials with him and toured the state with fundraisers with him and his team. So I knew him, and I had called his office and gotten no response.

Dad said to Mrs. Thurman that night, “Zan needs help from the Senator now.” So she called his chief of staff who said, “We’ll overnight a letter to Charlie Williams, the State Superintendent of Education, telling him to approve the program.” But the next day we got a call from his chief of staff saying that the Senator was actually going to fly down and meet personally with Charlie Williams, who was the State Superintendent of Education.

So, when Senator Thurmond, the legend, walks in and tells Dr. Williams, “Her program is legal, we’ve looked into it, you need to approve it.” Then everything changed. So, the threats of jail averted, and the State Board approved my program. We homeschooled that first year. It was still very tough, we had policemen riding up and down our streets of a very quiet neighborhood. We assumed to make sure that we were inside having school and at home, and we had threatening phone calls, and neighbors.

Yvette:                         From the school board?

Zan:                              Well, you know, at first, we didn’t know. This is before caller ID and cell phones and all of this. So BellSouth had just come out with this very expensive callback system, you could see who called you. I told Joe, I said, “I want to pay for this.” We had no money at this point, legal fees and all. He said, “Okay, you’re paranoid, but we’ll do it.” It was school districts, and it was not just my own. It was other school districts in the state calling me, wanting personal information, seeing if I answered the phone.

It was crazy. But that year, our goal was just to get Ty ready for first grade. But the things that we saw happening in our home, even with all the pressure, the legal pressure outside of the home, there was just this, not magic, that’s the wrong word, but this just incredible depth building in our home that we had never had before, even though I was a stay at home mother up until that point.

So, our vision for homeschooling began to grow a little bit, and legal threats were starting to pour in, and the State Department of Education was getting ready to promulgate very negative regulations. So, it just grew into an eight year struggle, really, or battle, where for eight years our family was, either in court or in the legislature, fighting for good homeschool laws in South Carolina.

Yvette:                         At that point you knew you weren’t just fighting for yourself; you were fighting for others who would come into homeschooling.

Zan:                              Yes, that’s right.

Yvette:                         Through that time, did you start to meet other families who were homeschooling?

Zan:                              Yes, yes. I remember we went to the first conference in Atlanta, and I think there were seven families from South Carolina there. Which I had no idea, we were delighted to see seven. But everybody was so nervous, nobody would give out their phone numbers or their last names, because we were so afraid that there was somebody from the government there. They were scary times.

But during that first year, Joe and I began to keep a database of people who were starting to call us then from all over the country, it was kind of strange. It was think tanks and attorneys, and people looking to move to South Carolina, who may have already started homeschooling in another state where there was no threat. So, we just started collecting names of people who had heard of homeschooling. We weren’t necessarily looking for homeschoolers, just people who had heard of it.

So we started growing this database, which came in handy then, in December of 1985, a year later, when we got the information that the State Department was getting ready to promulgate the regulations that would require teaching parents, and to have a college degree, and only use state-approved tax. So that gave us a little bit of list to begin building that grassroots movement with.

Yvette:                         So how did homeschooling change your family?

Zan:                              Oh, my goodness, I feel like Shakespeare, “let me count the ways.” It just, this closeness. We were close to begin with, I can’t explain it. Just a deeper intimacy. It made the kids closer. The most dramatic change for me is I began to notice my boys’ spiritual gifts. There was no time for that kind of observation before, but even though they were young, I believe that the Lord gave me insight into things that the boys were capable of spiritually, and the way they thought.

For instance, we had been praying, just for our neighbors, that we’d have a chance to witness. One day, during our first few weeks of homeschooling, they were out playing and I called them in, they were riding their bikes in the driveway, and he didn’t come. I said, “Ty, honey, you have to obey me the first time, or homeschooling is not going to work.” He said, “Well, mom, did you see that little boy on the bicycle?” He said, “We’ve been sharing Jesus. I’d never seen him in our neighborhood. I was afraid I’d never see him again, and I just needed to tell him about Jesus.”

Yvette:                         Wow.

Zan:                              It was through instances of being together so much, that I began to see his heart to really share the Gospel, even as a young little boy. Then my other son, who is now an attorney, was always very thoughtful. When Joe and I went to our first homeschool conference, in Atlanta. Conference, I use that word very lightly, there were maybe 60 people there from 10 states or five states or something. My sister took John and Ty up to Stone Mountain, and they were six and four. We’d been learning the children’s catechism, and they found this footprint that looked like a huge footprint in the mountain, and Ty said, “John, look at this. This is so big, it must be God’s.” Four year old little John says, “Ty, God is a spirit and have not a body like man.”

Oh, my goodness! So, I began to see their spiritual depth really blossom. That has always been one of the greatest parts of homeschooling to me, is that we can prepare our kids to take their place in the world, not just academically gifted and other gifts, but their spiritual gifts. The church just needs mature believers now, people who can speak truth.

Yvette:                         Yeah, that’s right. So, kind of take us down the road of what homeschooling looked like. You say you went to these conventions, and there were about 60 people there, you know, to what it is today. Because now you go and you’ve got 6,000, 7,000 people or more at some conventions. It has changed dramatically, obviously.

It’s really interesting, because we’re going into our ninth year of homeschooling, but when we came into homeschooling nine years ago, it was very similar to what it is now. It was a very acceptable culture, it’s not awkward for us to go to the grocery store in the middle of the day. When people say, you know, “Oh, are you off of school today?” My girls say, “No, we’re homeschooled.” Then typically people will respond with, “Oh, wow, that’s great. I wish I could homeschool, or, you know, my sister homeschools, or my daughter home schools.” I mean, everybody knows somebody who homeschools.

Zan:                              Yes, that’s right.

Yvette:                         But obviously, it wasn’t that way for you.

Zan:                              That’s right.

Yvette:                         So, take us through what it was like for you in those beginning years, and other families, to what homeschooling has become today.

Zan:                              I have such a vivid memory of having homeschooled for about six months, and being in tears one morning during my quiet time, just saying, “Lord, remember me, this person you made so extroverted? I now have no friends.” There were people in the neighborhood who would no longer speak to us, people in our church who were suspicious. I mean, this was 1984, and like I said, when I said we knew nobody when we started, we knew nobody when we started. So, there was just no support and nobody for the kids to share that experience with.

Now, as the year progressed and we went into the second year, then we found friends. I mean, it wasn’t unusual for us to drive to Greenville to see another homeschool family, which was 100 miles away, or Charleston. Then we began to develop a few friends and a little bit of a community. I will say this, that the community that developed was very, very close. Then when we were threatened in 1985, with those regulations from the State Department, we started pulling the group together and sending mailings out.

Then somebody gave us an organization that had already the 501(c)(3) status they weren’t using anymore. We took that over and then formed the first homeschooling organization in South Carolina. So, it was definitely hard. It was just hard. But we knew the Lord had called us, and then to watch it grow step by step. We had the first public hearing in South Carolina in 1986, and we actually had about 400 people show up for that, which was really amazing. We had no idea. We just sent out this blind list, this list we had been mailing, and we had all these people show up. It was pretty amazing. That was a ton of people.

Yvette:                         That is a lot, because that’s before the days of even email-

Zan:                              That’s right, oh, no, email, no. That was the days before fax. It was by phone or mail. So, it was very interesting. So, it was the Lord, and then eventually we started going to the National Leadership Conference. It was people from a lot of other states who had … everybody was going through their own set of circumstances. Some people were very free, like in Georgia or North Carolina, other people were like us in South Carolina, where we were very threatened, and it was very hard. But that was our peer group, and that sort of was what the Lord gave us, just to keep us going, and that fellowship we needed to keep going.

I can remember the first time Joe and I were asked to go to Japan to speak at a conference there, and it wasn’t for expats, it was for Japanese. I sat on the plane, and all of a sudden I just started crying, because I looked at Joe and I said, “You remember when we first started homeschooling? All people wanted to do was shut me up. You know, make her be quiet, stop talking about this, go away.” The fact that somebody was paying us to fly halfway across the world to talk to them about homeschooling, it was just overwhelming.

It’s one of those moments that will just always be emblazoned in my mind. But it was like a revival movement, the Lord just kept raising people up and up and up, and it got bigger and bigger, and it was this grassroots ground swell. That was one reason you know it’s really the Holy Spirit, because there’s no other explanation for it.

Yvette:                         Yeah. So, you’ve been through the whole process of helping to make it legal. Where do you see homeschooling going in the future? Do you see that our freedoms are in jeopardy at all? Or do you think that we will be able to continue on with our freedom? And how can people make sure that our freedom stays?

Zan:                              Joe always says, “It’s not that the grass is greener on the other side, it’s the grass is greenest where you water it and fertilize it.” So we shouldn’t ever take our marriages for granted, we should never take our freedom for granted. I know what it’s like to be an innocent person who was threatened legally. I will tell you that is not fun. I never want another mother to go through what we went through. It was horrible. Wandering at night if somebody was going to take my kids, if a neighbor was going to turn us in to the Department of Social Services for something. It was extremely stressful.

So, my love for freedom is very, not guarded, but it’s in the context of knowing we can lose it, and knowing what that feels like. Ronald Reagan said, “It only takes a generation to lose our freedom.” Then there’s the quote, “All we need to lose our freedom is … for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.” So I think it’s very easy to become complacent, when it seems so easy.

But we need to remember we have enemies, whether it’s the National Education Association or the School Administrators Association. There are people out there who think that the fact that we can homeschool our children is the worst thing that has ever happened to the culture. We think it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to the culture.

Yvette:                         Right, of course, but they want control over our children.

Zan:                              We were talking earlier today about this, I was speaking at a leadership forum sponsored by Clemson University in South Carolina, but this was the education segment, I was the homeschool spokesman. After it was over, this woman asked me, she said, “Don’t you feel guilty for homeschooling?” I said, “Well, I have felt a lot of emotions over homeschooling, but guilt is not one of them, why?” She said, “Because you’ve robbed the school district of all the money the state would have given them for your children, you’ve robbed the school district of kids who probably would have good test scores, because you’ve also robbed the school district of involved parents, all of these things which we need.”

So I got real quiet, and I said, “Well, who do you think my kids belong to?” Well, she had no answer. So I read her this, this shows what my life was like. I used to travel with this in my purse, I had no idea what I’m going to talk about at this day. So I read her this statement, I’m going to read it to you, just because this is where my life was.

“The fundamental theory of liberty upon which all governments in this union repose excludes any general power of the state to standardize his children by forcing them to accept instruction from public teachers only. The child is not the mere creature of the state. Those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right, coupled with the high duty, to recognize and prepare him for additional obligations.”

So she looked at me like, “Where did you get that right wing Christian propaganda?” She said, “Where did you get that?” I said, “From the United States Supreme Court, Pierce vs Society of Sisters, 1925.” I remember thinking then here is the problem with our society, nobody knows anymore that children don’t belong to the state. When you have to tell an audience that the child is not the mere creature of the state, and that is news to them, we are in trouble as a culture.

So, we have got to educate people, as to what freedom and liberty is all about, what the constitution is all about, parental rights, and who our kids belong to. That’s very elementary. Socialism and Marxism would have us believe our kids belong to the government.

Yvette:                         That’s right, that’s right. We have a couple minutes left. In these last few minutes I would love for you to talk about, because I know you’ve been very involved in your state organization. How can people get involved in their own state organization, or in, you know, the United States as a whole, to keep the freedoms that we have for homeschooling? And why do these state organizations even exist?

“The state organizations have done the homeschooling community such a great service in watching each state, legislature by legislature, and knowing where the threats come up. So, I would invite and encourage every homeschooler to join their state group, and their state group will be the legislative watchdog. Then go to your state day at the capitol. Most states have that, some states don’t. Start one if you don’t. I would tell you to get to know your legislator and your state Senator, and that is not hard to do, they want to know you as a constituent.”

Zan:                              Well, the state organizations have done the homeschooling community such a great service in watching each state, legislature by legislature, and knowing where the threats come up. So, I would invite and encourage every homeschooler to join their state group, and their state group will be the legislative watchdog. Then go to your state day at the capitol. Most states have that, some states don’t. Start one if you don’t. I would tell you to get to know your legislator and your state Senator, and that is not hard to do, they want to know you as a constituent.

Homeschooled kids are the best thing we have going for us, because they’re polite and articulate, and well-educated. It’s like one representative said to me, “Zan, now that I see the artwork, I want to know the artist.” So, we need to do that, we need to take our kids with us to vote, we need to get them involved with pro-life, pro-family candidates. My boys started working campaigns with me when they were little, we would hold out signs in the rain. You know, politics is not glamorous, but it is really necessary.

Then, you know, during the presidential election, every presidential election, we would have a blank map of the states, and we would color a state red if it went to the Republican candidate, blue if it went to the Democrat, and we’d mark in the number of electoral votes. So, explain to your kids the electoral college, there’s a great movement afoot to get rid of it. It would destroy our Republican form of government. So I would just say be involved. If it’s uncomfortable, just decide you’re going to live out of your comfort zone.

Heidi’s podcast is a great podcast. She keeps us up politically with what’s going on, and your state organization will do that. Join HSLDA as well, they’ve been a great safeguard for homeschooling parents.

Yvette:                         Yeah, absolutely. Yes, you’re right. Heidi St. John, her podcast, the Heidi St. John Podcastis excellent. She often talks about just things that are going on in the culture. I get all my news from her.

Zan:                              Yeah, that’s fabulous.

Yvette:                         I listen to it every day. But, yes, people can actually go to the Schoolhouse Rockedwebsite,and there’s a dropdown that talks about state organizations, and people can easily find their own state organization on there. So you don’t even have to go anywhere else, you just go straight to the Schoolhouse Rocked website.

Zan, thank you. Thank you for everything you’ve done, everything that you and your family have sacrificed for the freedoms that we enjoy today as homeschoolers. You are a homeschool legend, and I am so excited to be sitting here with you. So thank you for your time today.

Zan:                              It has been my privilege. Thank you so much.

You can find out more about Zan Tyler at ZanTyler.com.

Read Zan’s book, Seven Tools for Cultivating Your Child’s Potential

Read Heidi St. John’s book, Busy Homeschool Mom’s Guide to Daylight: Managing Your Days Through the Homeschool Years

Photo by vivek kumar on Unsplash

Photo by Garritt Hampton

 

 

Motivating Your Homeschooler

“I can assure you that all of those things that seem super important, like, “did you get through the math book by the end of May?”, actually, in the big picture, are not all that important. I would say some of the least important part about growing up is the academic side. The most important part is the adventures, and the breadth of knowledge and experience and of course above all the relationships and the spiritual enrichment, that is so much more easily facilitated when you’ve got the time and space and priority to do that.”

Yvette Hampton:           Hey everyone, I am so excited about our guest today. Before we started the Schoolhouse Rocked podcast, we sent out a question to our Schoolhouse Rocked followers and just said, “Hey, we’re starting this podcast. Who do you want to hear on the podcast? What guest do you want, and what do you want us to talk about?” Of course, many of you wrote in and said, “Andrew Pudewa.” We saw his name over and over again, and so many of you are very excited about hearing him and wanted to hear more of him because those of you who have heard him speak know that he is just full of wisdom and knowledge and insight when it comes to homeschooling and family and education.

Yvette:                         We, of course, are really excited to have him as part of the Schoolhouse Rocked cast. Welcome, Andrew. We are really excited to have you on today.

Andrew Pudewa:          Hey Yvette, it is great to be with you. Thanks for the invite.

Yvette:                         Sure. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your family.

Listen to this interview with Andrew Pudewa on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. (7/16/2019 Episode)

Andrew:                       Well, my wife and I have homeschooled all of our children. The oldest now is 39, and the youngest just got married at 18. That’s seven kids, six married, 11 grandchildren. I’ve been at this teaching business for a little over 30 years and the time has flown by. I have a little company called the Institute for Excellence in Writing. We publish video material as well as books and activity types of curriculum to help students with language arts, really to help teachers and homeschool parents help kids learn how to write better, but really, it encompasses all of the language arts, listening, speaking, reading, and writing.

Then of course, the result of good listening, speaking, reading and writing is better thinking, so a little tagline on our company. If you’re go to our website, iew.com, you’d see our little tagline. It’s listen, speak, read, write, think. It’s a good role. I’ve been at it full time for close to 20 years now, working with homeschoolers all over the world. I had the great privilege and pleasure of going with my wife to Russia for the Global Home Education Conference in St. Petersburg in Moscow, Russia last May. Then I went on an undercover trip over to China, I won’t even say where, to do a three-day conference for expat homeschooling families who live in China. We came back, finished up the summer, and then in August went to New Zealand and did a six-city tour of New Zealand to serve the homeschoolers over there. I’m looking forward to when that movie is out and ready and everyone in the world can stream it and see it.

Yvette:                         Well, we’ll have to, of course, translate it into Chinese obviously.

Andrew:                       I’d go for Russian first only because homeschooling in Russia is it’s exploding. I mean, it is going to grow so rapidly over there.

Yvette:                         That is amazing.

Andrew:                       The government evidently is either neutral or supportive about homeschoolers in almost all places. There are classical conversations, programs, I think. Many dozens of them. There may be as many as a hundred CC communities now across the huge country of Russia, and that’s just going to grow.

This transcript is generously provided by MakeCrate. MakeCrate provides your homeschooler with the STEM skills they need for the future! Fun, hands-on electronics kits paired with an online learning platform teach your middle or high schooler engineering and coding fundamentals right at home! No technical expertise is required. Order your MakeCrate today at MakeCrate.Club/SR. 

Yvette:                         It’s been so encouraging to find out that when we started Schoolhouse Rocked, we, I think, had a very narrow vision of, “Well, this is for the United States because we were kind of in our little California bubble,” and that was what we knew. We didn’t realize that homeschooling is growing leaps and bounds across the entire world. It’s not just in America, and so it’s been really exciting and encouraging. Like you said, we really desire to get the movie out. We changed our focus. The movie is obviously filmed in the United States, and all of our cast members are from the U.S. but it has changed our focus to just say, “Wow, this is not just a movie that can change people’s hearts in the United States. It can change people’s hearts around the world.”

That is so exciting. I love that you’ve had the opportunity to go to all these different countries and talk about homeschooling. This is actually not the exact direction that I want the podcast interview to go because I have some questions for you, but can you tell us just in a nutshell what the flavor of homeschooling is? What are parents like in other parts of the country as you’ve gone there and talk to them about homeschooling?

Andrew:                       Well, I’ve been around a long time. I’ve been speaking at homeschool conferences really 20 years now, and so the demographic has changed, of course, as homeschooling has grown more and varied types of people have become interested in it. Well, I would say once upon a time, almost everyone was homeschooling for moral or religious reasons. Now, we’re meeting people who are coming into it through all different directions. Their primary reason may be academic. They just know they can do a better job teaching their kids one-on-one or three-on-one and in an individualized focus setting than any school and teacher no matter how good the teachers are just because of the nature of institutional education, again, people coming in from that side.

You’ve got people coming in with special needs and special circumstances saying, “this child has this thing going on”, and it could be health. It could be neurological. It could be some type of learning challenge. It could be giftedness. They’re just saying the schools are not equipped to maximize this child’s potential. I can do that better. They’re coming in on that side. Then there are other people that are just looking at the whole situation saying, “Well, there are so many things about that school I don’t like, and I can’t afford that option. And I’m not really sure that I want to homeschool, but I don’t see any better options.” I like that because they come in, and then hopefully, they begin to taste and see the goodness of the homeschool world and the culture and all the resources and opportunities that are available now that weren’t 20 years ago.

It truly is a case where I think more and more parents are realizing everyone homeschools. It’s just some people do it full time. Everyone has to teach their children at home. It’s just are you going to make that a primary part of your life, or are you going to do it on the side? We meet a lot of parents that are coming to conferences now saying, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if I can do this. Maybe I can, but I’m not sure I want to, but man, all the people here are so happy.”


Andrew Pudewa on School at Home

Yvette:                         Yes, and you see whole families together, which is really exciting. That’s one of my favorite parts of going to conventions is when you see mom and dad and kids walking around together and looking at curriculum and going to the different workshops. It’s really exciting just to see that dynamic of the entire family being together.

Andrew:                       Absolutely. The family is so under attack. In the western developed world all around the world, the family is under attack, so homeschooling seems to be on the vanguard of, “Let’s recapture. Let’s retain. Let’s rebuild. Let’s communicate to the world the great beauty of families functioning, learning, operating, growing together rather than being split apart by the busyness of life and technology. The institutions that can distract us.


Andrew Pudewa – Homeschooling Brings Growth

Yvette:                         I know for you, because you travel so much, you’re always on the road – I imagine it has allowed you to be able to have a really special kind of relationship with your kids because when you’re home, you’re able to be with them and instead of them being away at school. You actually get that time or got that time, because most of them are adults now. They’re all adults.

Andrew:                       It was a trade off because when you’re gone for three or four days, 30 weeks a year, that’s a lot of time to be gone. There’s mom feeling like having to do both sides of the parenting, but then when I’m home, I was always home. That was good. I could schedule classes and do things. Then a part of it, in our case because it was a family business rather than me working for other company, I would often take one or two kids with me. In the early days, I needed them. I needed their suitcase space to bring the books, I need them [inaudible 00:09:48] the booth.

Growing up in a family business, I think, it has its pluses and its challenges, but overall, I think all of them gained a lot of very practical, very memorable, positive and maybe a few bitter moments, but it certainly cultivated attitude of entrepreneurship that I can see in all of them now. They’re all grown up, and they’re all very entrepreneurial thinking, and a couple of them have started businesses on their own. It’s great to see. Great to see the… It’s wonderful, Yvette, to have adult children. You don’t have adult kids yet, do you?

Yvette:                         Not yet. Ours are still young.

Andrew:                       Well, one thing I would say to everyone who’s in that case of young children or in the thick of it with a teenager and a four-year-old all at the same time is it’s so great to have adult children because I can assure you that all of those things that seem super important, like, “did you get through the math book by the end of May?”, actually, in the big picture, are not all that important. I would say some of the least important part about growing up is the academic side. The most important part is the adventures, and the breadth of knowledge and experience and of course above all the relationships and the spiritual enrichment, that is so much more easily facilitated when you’ve got the time and space and priority to do that.

Although, it’s easy for us as homeschool parents to get caught up and worried about the academic side because we’re responsible for keeping the transcript and having grades and being sure that this kid is going to make it into college and get a good job someday. There’s that anxiety, so we’re always balancing that freedom along with that anxiety about academics.


Andrew Pudewa – Homeschooling is Efficient

Yvette:                         That’s a real struggle of course for homeschool moms. Our oldest is in seventh grade this year. I’m now starting to think, “Oh gosh, she’s going to be in high school in two years, and I have to start keeping real transcripts for her.” They’re seriously… I mean, there can be a lot of anxiety that goes along with that. Like you said, it’s not about just the academics. I mean, those are important but it’s so much more. School is so much more than just academics. It’s about character building and family and relationships and stuff like you said.

It’s so exciting, but that doesn’t always take away the questions that the moms have. It’s a big responsibility that we put on ourselves and that God gives to us when we choose to take on this role of home educating our children, because it is an important thing in so many areas. I mean, it’s their whole life that you’re holding in your hands. Only by the grace of God can we get this done effectively.

Andrew:                       That’s what you realize is they were God’s kids all along.

Yvette:                         That’s right.

Andrew:                       You’re just helping out doing their best. Could I put in a little plug for the HSLDA, the Homeschool Legal Defense Association?

Yvette:                         Sure. Absolutely.

Andrew:                       I’m a big supporter of HSLDA. They, of course, are strongly behind the support for global home education freedom. In the early days, people would join HSLDA because they thought, “Oh no, if social services comes banging on my door, if the truant officer calls, what would I do? I want this insurance,” so they would join HSLDA for that purpose. I believe that we’ve become a bit complacent in the homeschool communities because we haven’t had too many huge legal problems in most dates. You and I both homeschooled in California for a while and that’s a very homeschool friendly state.

I’m in Oklahoma now. It’s probably the most homeschool friendly state, and even the less homeschool friendly states, which I will not name by name – You out there who live there, you know where you are. We take for granted now the freedoms that we have to do this, but honestly, the Homeschool Legal Defense Association does so much more than provide “legal representation” insurance in case you have a problem. I would just encourage everyone to join the HSLDA, not because you think you might need their services, but because what they’re doing is a tremendously good work and that is holding every single agency or government or office that interfaces with homeschoolers accountable in subtle ways.

Not just, “Is it legal or not,” but do homeschool graduates have the same opportunities and rights? Is someone infringing on that by saying, “No, no, your school diploma doesn’t count.” Then of course they provide some wonderful services. In fact, as having kids going to high school, you might want to look into their transcript service because they have a great little service. It’s not very expensive, and it will help you to stay organized for this next decade of having kids go through high school and all that. I wish everyone would join the HSLDA, because more than any other organization that I know of, they are standing on the front line of the right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children.

I fear that right, while we may be taking it for granted, could be not only infringed, but actually cut in many cases very quickly without us even noticing it.

Yvette:                         I appreciate that, and you’re welcome, HSLDA, for that commercial! That was not planned, but I love that. You and I, last month, I think it was, we were at the HSLDA national leaders conference in Washington, D.C. We’ve been members of HSLDA for many, many years. I guess, this is our eighth year of membership with them. We’re now actually lifetime members because we figured we’re going to do this forever, so may as well just go for the lifetime. I really didn’t know all the things that they offered, and we’ve been members for a long time. There’s so much stuff on their website, but they really are a fantastic organization.

The freedom that they have fought for and the freedom that they continue to fight for and protect for homeschool families is incredible. Like you said, I think we do take for granted that we have this freedom to homeschool. When we started, we really didn’t know all of the backstories that had gone on in all… I mean, there were parents just like you and I who were regular homeschool parents, who were threatened in big ways for choosing to take their kids out of school and saying we’re going to home educate them. They fought long, and they fought hard, and they fought tough to get these freedoms for us today.

Most people don’t know about that. The other thing that I really had my eyes up into two were state organizations. They don’t fall under the leadership of HSLDA, but I know they work very closely sometimes with HSLDA, but on their own, they really work hard to protect their freedoms and their individual states and then they’re there for their own state families to encourage them and equip them and to keep their own freedoms for their own individual states. I think a lot of people… We’re actually going to be doing an interview later this week with Rebecca Kocsis. She’s one of the state representatives for Chia, which is in California.

We’re going to talk with her about state organizations. I agree. It’s so important to stand behind those people who are standing in front of us and keeping those walls broken down so that we can continue to homeschool our kids. Anyway, so I have a couple of questions. You and I could talk all day long. When we interviewed you for Schoolhouse Rocked, I remember, I think I might’ve asked you maybe four questions, and your interview was two and a half hours long. It was awesome, and it was funny we came away from there. We said, “Well, goodness gracious, how do we pull the gold out of this?”

The way we do that of course is we’ve got the Schoolhouse Rocked Backstage Pass, and we will at some point have your full interview up on there that people can view, but I do have a couple of questions for you. Like I said, we had people write in and ask specific questions, and they wanted to know some things. There are a couple that I thought you would be just great at answering because I know you talk a lot about motivation in the homeschool day. One mom wrote in. She said, “How do you motivate the daydreamer to buckle down and complete their assignments quickly but well so that they can have more free time to pursue their passions? We’ve tried everything and even a scaled back assignment will take all day because she has no drive to finish. Do we just have to nag?”

How would you answer that mom? Help her out.

Andrew:                       It’s hard to give a specific answer to a specific question without knowing a few more details, but I would talk about principles of motivation, which I have studied extensively and talked about and written about. What I have come to understand over these decades is that there’s really four forms of motivation. One, I would call intrinsic, so something has intrinsic relevancy, right? If something is relevant, meaningful, interesting, engaging, applicable, useful to some degree, it’s easier to learn. Wouldn’t you agree?

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       If something is not interesting, applicable, meaningful, useful in some way, it’s harder to learn.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       This tangible quality of relevancy when you can get it there, when it’s present, teaching and learning are easier, and when it’s less present or absent, teaching and learning are harder, so four forms of relevancy, I would mention here. If anybody wants to listen to this in more detail, there’s a 90-minute talk. You can get off our website called Teaching Boys and Other Kids Who Would Rather Be Making Forts All Day.

Yvette:                         I love that title.

Andrew:                       It’s a very popular talk.

There’s intrinsic relevancy. That’s when something is just so interesting that you are totally engaged. You want to learn about it. You lose your sense of time. You’re fascinated. You’re excited. You tell everybody what you’re learning and doing. That’s a super blessing when it happens, but unfortunately, it’s not something you can force. It sometimes happens more often with some kids than others. I mean, there are some kids who are just naturally more inquisitive and curious and will get excited and go pursue something and others who are just a little bit less so, a little more passive, wait around what to do.

To the degree that we as homeschoolers can find things that are intrinsically interesting to children and get them to do that, they’ll be motivated. They’ll use their time. They’ll use their time to be productive, but you may or may not find something that the problem usually comes between what mom believes would be useful learning and what the child believes is relevant and interesting. There could be a gap between those two.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       On the unschooling side of the philosophical spectrum is don’t ever tell kids what to do. Just let them pursue their interests all day, and they’ll learn and come out great in the end. That feels a little dangerous to most of us. Although, I have families that have done that, and there were schools actually around the world that are based on that principle. In many cases, the kid too seem to have come out pretty good on the other end.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       I think that total unschooling freedom idea is pretty – Most of us are a little bit, “Well, that’s too risky.” Then there’s things that people have to learn that maybe they’re not interested in intrinsically. The next form of relevancy to motivate with would be inspired relevancy. You may not be particularly interested in something but because someone whom you love or respect is interested in that thing. You hang out with them, and you catch vicariously a desire and interest to relevancy from that thing. I’ve seen this happen in any number of cases of parents who put kids in a class. The kid’s like, “I don’t want to do that class.”


Andrew Pudewa to Homeschool Dads, “Support and Encourage”

Then the teacher or one of their friends or they make a new friend, someone in that environment is so inspiring, but suddenly that kid likes that class and wants to go and want to read more, and wants to study and wants to become good. I would say probably the most frequent story I hear is the public speaking or speech and debate. Kids are very shy. I don’t want to do public speaking. I don’t want to stand in front of people. I don’t want to memorize the speech. I don’t want to do a debate. You just get them in there and do it for a while. Pretty soon, it’s the bug. The bug bites like the acting bug.

That’s, “Wow! That was cool. I got to do that.” Not only do I want to do that. Again, I want to be good at it. I’m going to polish this speech. I’m going to practice this thing. I’m going to do extra research so I can be good. That speech and debate in my world, is the most obvious example of power of inspiring. For us as homeschoolers today, we have a lot more opportunities to help get our kids connected with people who love something. I personally don’t really like science very much. I’d never wanted to teach science.

If you said, “Here, you have to do biology or physics with your kid,” I’d say, “Well, let’s hurry up and pretend we did this so we could do something meaningful,” but now with coops and classes and programs like Aquinas learning, classical conversations, online classes, which are really very surprisingly interactive with experts, teachers, and many of these teachers now were homeschool kids themselves who are now adults teaching online classes and teaching coop classes for the next generation of homeschoolers. This is so exciting because of their enthusiasm.

I’m sure you’ve seen this.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       You go hear a speaker or a teacher, and you are so inspired to learn more.

Yvette:                         Yes.

“We must be a special creation from an infinite intelligence, because the things humans do, particularly this activity of writing, is so incredibly complex.”

Andrew:                       Kids are like that, but some things are just not interesting. A lot of work books that kids have to do, they don’t see the relevancy. “Why should I have to mark all the parts of speech in this grammar workbook? Why should I have to do all this math? Math is not part of my real life. I don’t use double digit multiplication in reality. It’s just a few exercises and futility that stresses me.” What could be like that? English spelling stuff, even in our world of teaching writing, a lot of kids don’t like having to stay in one spot and wrangle their brain around the process of thinking of something, saying it to themselves, hearing what they say to themselves, remembering what they say to themselves.

Find a few letters to make a word they might know how to spell and not forget all that while they’re doing it. I mean, I’ve been often about thinking about the writing process. It’s so phenomenally complicated. For me, it’s proof that humans could not possibly have evolved.

We must be a special creation from an infinite intelligence, because the things humans do, particularly this activity of writing, is so incredibly complex. Anyway, so how do we help kids with that stuff? Well, this is where we’d move into the third area, and I think this is most applicable to the person who asked that question. That is contrived relevancy. It’s not intrinsically interesting. Nobody’s thrilled about it. Nobody’s going to inspire you. Now, how do you get wanting to do something? That’s when we can try to change it into a game. Sometimes, it’s a very small shift from a chore to a challenge.

That’s the trick. If chores can shift the thing from being a chore to be procrastinated, avoided, done in slow motion, tedious, complaining, to a challenge, “I’ve got to get this done,” then we see really good success. I’ll give you an example of just the slightest little shift that makes a huge difference. Let’s say you have a grammar workbook kind of thing, and you turn the page, and it says, “Identify all the prepositional phrases in the paragraph below. Underline each prepositional phrase with a single underline, and the preposition itself with a double underlie.”

I mean, who wants to do it? I wouldn’t want to do it. You will write stupid. I mean, what’s the point? It has no relevancy, no bearing on reality, but we have to do it. Well, now here’s the shift. In the paragraph below are hidden 13 prepositional phrases. Find them all and you win.

Yvette:                         Let’s make it a game.

Andrew:                       That’s just different. For boys in particular, but also for a lot of girls, it’s like, “Oh, well, I like to win. Okay, great. I’ll play the game.” Now, at some point, just saying you won isn’t quite enough.

Yvette:                         There must be candy involved.

Andrew:                       Some kind of economic system.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       Whether you use pennies or points or pop charts or peanuts, the thing that’s interesting about that is that’s the physical manifestation of something of value to the child that communicates to the child, “Your efforts are valued. I appreciate your work.” Now, some people would say, “Well, you’re bribing the kid to do what he should do anyway.” Well, bribery’s when you pay someone to do something illegal or immoral. That’s neither. You’re creating a game. I love my job. I love working, and I love traveling around the world.

I love teaching, but I’m not sure I would do it quite so much if there wasn’t some kind of economic side to it. Children are… They’re preparing to be adults, boys in particular. If you can set up some type of system to say, “Hey, if you do this much of whatever in this amount of time, then you get these points or these chips or these whatever, and that has value.”

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       You can exchange those for some privilege or benefit. Then just be sure the privilege or benefit is something that you would want for the child anyway.

Yvette:                         Sure. Well, if you think about that even in life, whether you’re an entrepreneur or have a job where you’re employed by someone else, you do the work and then you get paid for that work that you do, and so you’re still getting something in return. You’re not just going and doing the job just for the sake of doing the job. That’s life. That’s actually a life skill that they’re learning, that you do this because it’s going to produce this result or you’re going to get this in return.

Andrew:                       If you don’t go that route, then you are stuck going the last… get down to the worst and least effective form of relevancy, which I have termed enforced. Enforced relevancy is when you say you will learn this or you will do this or you will suffer some penalty. I’m not talking about discipline. I am saying, of course, there are things that we all have to do we don’t want to do, and the consequences for not doing them are negative and children need that, but in terms of learning, what happens when you use that type of forced relevancy is you most likely to get the appearance of learning or a very temporary.

I’ll do everything on this page, but when I turn the page, I’m not even going to remember it. I’ll study for the test. As soon as I pass the test, I can forget all that stuff because it wasn’t really important. I really never cared. I just didn’t want to suffer the consequences of getting a bad grade or whatever.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       Sometimes, we resort to that. I mean, I would be the first person to say… I have said things like, “You’re going to have that math finished or you’re not going to eat ever.” I don’t have an easy solution to that person who asked that question, but I think by contemplating some of these basically principles of motivation, and like I said, I don’t know the specifics. My guess is that this person who has a fairly young child who is probably easily distracted. Maybe as young as six or seven. I don’t know. Maybe as old as eight or nine, but it’s possible that she’s taking kind of this let’s do school at home approach, and here’s the pile of books with the number on the cover, and you have to do x number of pages in each of these things every day.

“Some kids read and do math grade at five or six, but as the schools have pushed the academics lower and lower, we in the homeschool look at that and say, “Oh no, we have to do that. We have to start pre-k curriculum, which to me is the most ridiculous, oxymoronic thing you could ever say.”

Andrew:                       “So we stay on schedule and get done by the end of the year. And if we don’t do all that, then we can’t do other learning activities or anything else.” Sometimes, people start there, but then, I think, they come to maybe a little bit more organic understanding, especially, of younger children. I think, we start school too young.

Yvette:                         Yes, I agree.

Andrew:                       We try to press your kids at five and six years old into reading and doing abstract math when they’re not ready for it. Now, some kids are.

Yvette:                         Sure.

Andrew:                       Some kids read and do math grade at five or six, but as the schools have pushed the academics lower and lower, we in the homeschool look at that and say, “Oh no, we have to do that. We have to start pre-k curriculum, which to me is the most ridiculous, oxymoronic thing you could ever say.

Yvette:                         Sure. That’s the stage where kids still need to wiggle and move around. That’s one of the things I have heard you say several times about read-alouds and audio books and things like that is it’s okay for your kids to be flipping around on the ground or playing with Legos or doing whatever it is they do as long as there is moving, because in a classroom, we expect our children to sit still. They have to sit in their chair. They have to sit on their carpet and crisscross their legs and put their hands in their lap and be still.

Well, many kids can’t learn that. They are physically incapable of learning that way effectively. They need to move. They need to explore. They need to be able to do things with their hands and draw pictures. I mean, my 12 almost 13-year-old, she still is like that, and she’s not a real high energy person. She’s pretty mellow, but she still needs, even in church, I mean, she’s always drawing. She has to draw. If she doesn’t doodle on her paper, she’s not going to hear anything that the pastor is saying.

You can find Andrew Pudewa and IEW online at IEW.com.

Andrew Pudewa recommends the following resources in his interview.

Homeschool Legal Defense Association: HSLDA

IEW: Teaching Boys & Other Children Who Would Rather Build Forts All Day

IEW Recommended Book List (Books for Boys & Other Children Who Would Rather Make Forts All Day)

Read Aloud Revival with Schoolhouse Rocked cast member, Sarah Mackenzie.

Book Recommendations:

However Imperfectly by Andrew Pudewa

IEW Book List: Timeline of Classics

Center for Lit: Reading Roadmaps

Honey for a Child’s Heart by Gladys Hunt

Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know by E.D. Hirsch Jr.

The Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss

 

Photo by Benjamin Davies on Unsplash

Homeschooling Rights and Responsibilities

The following article is an excerpt from the upcoming Schoolhouse Rocked Homeschool Quick-Start Guide, which was contributed by HSLDA (Homeschool Legal Defense Association. If you have questions about homeschool laws or getting started homeschooling, please visit www.hslda.org.

You have looked at various educational options and think that homeschooling may be the best fit for your child(ren). You probably have a million questions, but two of the primary ones may be what are my rights as a parent and what are my responsibilities? Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand; it’s hard to discuss one without covering the other.

First, you have the fundamental right to direct the education and upbringing of your child. This right has been long established and recognized by the United States Supreme Court. What does that mean practically?

Well, you have the right to decide whether to homeschool your child. This is a decision that you as a parent make based on what is in your child’s best interests. Many parents have found homeschooling to be best for all their children. Others have found homeschooling the best fit for one child and another educational option better for a different child. You as the parent know best whether to homeschool your child, and it is your right to decide. A child’s teacher, a county official, your best friend—none of them can decide that for you or deny that to you.

As you may have already discovered, homeschooling is a diverse movement. There are many different methods of homeschooling, and it is your right to determine which method is best for your child. Some families find a fully structured, all-in-one curriculum to best suit their situation. Others have found their children thrive in a more hands-on, organic learning environment. Still others prefer a theme-based or classical great books study which combines several subject areas into an interwoven unit.

Closely related to your homeschool method is your right to choose the resources you will use. There is no pre-approved or state-mandated textbook list. You will find hoards of homeschool resources through homeschooling friends, groups, and online. Do some research, find what looks appealing to you, and give it a try—you can always adjust throughout the year.

A final note on your rights in homeschooling: you have the right to privacy in your own home. Occasionally a government official will attempt to intimidate a homeschooling parent by saying, “You have to let me in to inspect your schooling, records, etc.” Don’t be fooled: in this situation, it’s best to get direction from a legal professional. Membership in HSLDA is a comforting way to be sure you have that guidance if it is ever needed.

All of this sounds good, you say. But how do I know what I have to do? There are three straightforward responsibilities every homeschool parent has: know your state law, follow your state law, and provide of your child’s education.

Homeschooling is legal in all 50 states and is governed by state law. For this reason, the specific requirements you may have will vary depending on what state you are in. Some states require you to teach certain subjects, others require you to file paperwork, and some require certain evaluations. You can find your state’s homeschool law at https://hslda.org/content/laws/.

But it’s not enough to know your state law: you are responsible to follow it as well. Make a checklist for each year and set a reminder of any deadlines to help keep you on track. (Homeschooling parents are busy, and it’s easy for deadlines to slip past!) Keep good records showing you followed the law because that information will be important as your children graduate and enter college or the workforce.

Finally, and most importantly, you as a parent are responsible to provide for your child’s education. This is true for every parent! Again, states have differing ages set for when a child is subject to compulsory attendance (when he would have to start attending school), and many states include educational neglect in their child protection laws. A parent may provide for a child’s education by enrolling him in a school, thus delegating the actual educational instruction to someone else. Or, as you are considering, a parent may decide to provide for his child’s education by instructing him directly.

Choosing how to educate your child is a big decision. Homeschooling is a wonderful option many parents and children find rewarding. While it is a lot of work, the one-on-one individualized instruction is rarely equaled elsewhere, and the homeschool community is a supportive network.

If you have more questions about homeschool laws or getting started homeschooling, please visit www.hslda.org or give us a call!

 

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Mother and daughter photo by Artem Maltsev on Unsplash

Books photo by Clarisse Meyer on Unsplash

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How to Start Homeschooling

So, you’ve decided to homeschool. Questions will come to mind after you have decided to start homeschooling. There are a number of things to consider and places to get answers, but first, remember you are not alone! Homeschooling has become a viable and an accepted alternative means of education. Chances are there are a number of active homeschool communities and groups near you for support and interaction.

5 Things to Consider When You Decide to Start Homeschooling

Check Your State Laws
You will want to check your state on the laws for homeschooling. If you are withdrawing any children from school, you will also want to check out what documentation is required and the procedure to withdraw them and start a homeschool in your state. When starting a homeschool, you will want to make sure you are submitting the required forms and meet any requirements to be able to homeschool your children (these vary from state to state). Also, you want to be aware of any records you need to complete, submit, and keep to start the year, during the year, and complete the year. There are websites available to consult about local state laws and updates to those laws. State departments usually have a homeschooling department for information and required documents. The Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) provides you with local state laws, updates and upcoming legislation, contact information for questions, documents, and reporting, local groups, and general homeschool information and guidance.

Research Learning and Homeschooling Styles
After you are familiar with your legal requirements, the fun begins. Homeschooling gives you the freedom to choose how and what you will use to learn in your homeschool. First, you will want to determine your and your child’s learning styles. You will want to be aware of your own preferences and how that might work with your child’s preferences. These learning styles vary from visual, auditory, and kinesthetic to a preference for learning and processing concepts and skills in an organized and structured format or learning concepts in a random or more spontaneous fashion. These learning styles will influence the materials and curriculum you purchase.

Here is a Learning Style Quiz to take to see what preferences you and your child may have in your learning styles.

Next, you will want to determine your Homeschooling Style or Philosophy. These range from a Traditional or Classical Approach to Charlotte Mason or Montessori Methods to Project Based units or Unit Studies. Again, you may have one approach that you would enjoy teaching and spending your day doing and your child may have another. So, it’s important to get an idea of where everyone is coming from.

Here is a Homeschooling Philosophy Quiz to give you an idea of everyone’s preferences.

After you have your results, you can read summaries of these philosophies at HSLDA.  

There are other homeschooling styles you can look into as well like Hybrid Homeschooling academies where your child attends a school for only specific days during the week and then completes the assigned school work at home for the rest of the week. There also online schools for one, some, or all of your classes.

Choosing your Curriculum
Now, is the really fun part! It’s like Christmas shopping from a catalogue. Based on the results of what kind of learning and homeschooling styles you and your children prefer, you will make choices about curriculum and materials you want to use. There are some curriculum resources specifically geared toward certain styles and others that can be used interchangeably.

A lot of homeschoolers refer to themselves as “Eclectic Homeschoolers”, meaning they use a combination of materials and teaching and learning styles that meet their needs. As you homeschool more children at one time or your children become middle and high schoolers, you may want to consider using online classes to free up your time in planning and leaving you available to work one on one with other children.

Homeschool conventions are a great place to evaluate lots of curriculum at once. Check out Teach Them Diligently and Great Homeschool Conventions, or look for your state homeschooling organization’s convention. Conventions are also a great way to get encouraged and to feel like you are part of a MOVEMENT, so plan to attend one this year. There is nothing quite like being in one place with hundreds or thousands of like-minded people.

Look for Groups, Activities, and Classes to Join
You can look into support groups for moms or your children to find out what is available to homeschoolers in your area, such as classes, activities, field trips, and other resources. You can look to your church for activities, as well as Christian groups and coops in your area to find a homeschooling community of faith. Some school systems also allow homeschooled children to participate in elective classes and extracurricular activities, while others allow no participation.

You will want to decide if you want to commit yourself to something that meets regularly or allow yourself the flexibility to join in on specific activities as they arise. You also want to keep in mind that all groups have different personalities and one group may not be a fit for you and your family, while another might be just right.

Look into opportunities that are open to all students if you do not find ones you are interested in that are tailored specifically to homeschoolers. Businesses and museums often cater to homeschoolers with classes and field trip days.

Decide what Kind of Schedule you Want to Follow
You will want to decide if you wish to follow a more traditional school schedule that matches your local school or a year round schedule to allow for vacation time or extra time off each week or during the school year. As long as you meet your state’s required number of days of school, the scheduling is up to you. From there, you can decide what kind of daily school schedule you wish to follow. The sky’s the limit!

You might want to cover a subject each day for a short designated amount of time or do more of a block schedule where you take more time on specific days of the week to only cover specific subjects. We did a combination of short daily lessons for certain things like math, reading, spelling, where I felt we needed the daily review, and spent more time only a couple of times per week on science or social studies. We saved Fridays for field trips, projects, experiments, or special classes. With time, you will find your personal rhythm and routine that suits you and your family.

As they say, “The days may feel long, but the years are short.” So, even though the above list is important in building a successful homeschool foundation, the most important thing is to build your family in your faith in Christ and enjoy your time together and your homeschool journey!


Written by Katie Glennon of Katie’s Homeschool Cottage. Read more posts by Katie.

 


 

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